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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#351

A $100 million wire transfer. Is this literally how people invest in start-ups, just wiring huge sums of money to someone they do not know , on a promise/hope. that just seems so reckless on so many levels

This is not some random Western Union fly-by-night process. These are serious bank-to-bank transfers with plenty of documentation about who's who on both ends. That documentation is required not only by bank policy but by law (e.g. IRS and anti-terrorism laws). The fact that the wire transfers are highlighted so much in the charges is that they are interstate transactions, which makes them federal crimes rather than…

Refer to Wickard v Filburn. Whether a transaction leaves the state doesn't mean dick to interstate commerce clause. The interstate commerce is interpreted to mean basically any possession/production/consumption of goods regardless if they leave the state or even enter commerce. Supreme court decided even growing crops for use on animals on your own land is interstate commerce.

This is the reason why you can catch a federal charge for growing your own pot or making your own machine gun, despite it never leaving your property nor any desire or act to enter commerce/trade. Even merely _where_ you store your goods for personal non-commercial use in your own state is considered interstate commerce, a la Gun-Free School Zone Act.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#352

Question: could Holmes have avoided all of this by pivoting to something else and not losing investors money. It is extremely common for startups to exaggerate their tech just to later pivot to something else without any repercussions.

She did sort of try to pivot.

https://www.wired.com/2016/08/theranos-chance-clear-name-ins...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well well… I imagine we’ve crossed paths on eBay before - too funny.

Amazing to meet another fucked company collector! I thought this was something only I did, genuinely.

This feels like a real Colin Robinson / Evie Russell meet-cute*

[*from What We Do In The Shadows]

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#355
post #136

Question: could Holmes have avoided all of this by pivoting to something else and not losing investors money. It is extremely common for startups to exaggerate their tech just to later pivot to something else without any repercussions.

I followed the case very closely, read the transcripts I could find daily etc. What Elizabeth did wasn't far from what many many many founders do. This was held to a legal standard, sure, but let's be real here... since when was the legal standard the SV standard? Is SV really the bastion of morality and legal ethics? Is that the new norm, good behaviour? Notably some investors refused to participate and iirc Draper…

No. It's one thing to say "My company is going to change the world" or "I am the best president of all time". It's different to repeatedly make a claim that is verifiably untrue, like "I have perfected cold fusion" or "I have a cure for all forms of cancer". The average startup founder doesn't do this, no sane person does this.

> "The saddest thing of it all to me is that she was onto something, people are having success with her ideas today."

This is a very poorly informed statement. Who bought the valuable IP that Theranos spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing? No one is "having success with her ideas" because the ideas didn't exist. That's why she's going to prison

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> defrauding patients about their test results Because und test results where in general correctish, they where just not gotten in exactly the way it was claimed, which was also not noticable less reliable or anything. And what the user bought was the test result. As far as I understood, with my very limited understanding of US law it seems hard to sue as a consumer as you where deceived but not hurt/damaged in any w…

Wasn't Theranos' claim that they could do tests from much less blood? So how could the results be accurate if they presumably didn't have enough samples?

They were often doing full blood draws, not finger pricks.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#357

Sending fraudulent people to jail for a long, long time is fundamental to running a healthy society. One of the reasons the US is a decent place to live compared to other countries is because we actually prosecute frauds and criminals here. Let's start seeing some other countries around the world start doing this, like India, Russia, and China. My 80 year old mother was recently tricked into wiring money by Indian sc…

> Sending fraudulent people to jail for a long, long time is fundamental to running a healthy society Really?! Interesting... I agree, a functioning society needs good law and order, and some way to prosecute and bring criminals to justice. But I am personally not convinced that sending someone "to jail for a long, long time" is the solution. How is that productive? I think we need to come up with better ways to serv…

There are many different philosophies of justice. Personally, I find "restorative justice" the most compelling, especially when tempered with the practicality of "preventive justice". But there is also "rehabilitative justice", along with "retributive justice" which is closest to revenge and thus will never lack for popular appeal.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#358

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

I wish I'd known that notorious S.W.A.G. was A Thing because I pegged her as a scam artist when she first entered the public sphere. Next time my spidey-senses tip me off I'm gonna acquire as much promotional material as possible.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#359

It’s fascinating, albeit useless as it’s all speculation, to consider Holmes’ mentality and tactics. As a young and attractive woman she carefully manicured her appearance to resemble Steve Jobs and consistently altered her tone of voice (!) to sound deeper. To investors she was the disarmingly beautiful genius. These old grey men should be so lucky as to get her attention and be part of her myth! To a much older, ri…

[deleted]

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people are having success with her ideas today Citation needed. The whole concept has a critical flaw, as pointed out by her engineering staff and medical advisors: blood tests require a certain minimum volume of blood to work, and that's inescapable because blood components are discrete, not continuous. For example, a drop of blood is about .05mL, or about 1/20th of a milliliter. A common testing sample size in a…

While Theranos claims were absurd , it is not hard to believe there is scope for improvements in specific areas which is what OP is trying to say I guess. 1. The premise assumes there are not significant wastage in the current processes and those are near optimal. Any non optimal paths could potentially benefit from improvements 2. While there are some tests at that low concentrations not all tests have components at…

Many people are working very hard on solving these problems. Holmes simply claimed to have solved them all with one machine. They never had any idea of how to actually do that, never even tried. It wasn't like "If we use this new development in nanotechnology we might be able to...". It was just entirely made up, the whole time.

If I falsely claim to have invented a warp drive, I don't get credit for whatever work people do in that area in the future.

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