Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#351

Post by saltminer » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

feupan wrote: post #228

mschuster91 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What can go wrong when everybody can program your SIM remotely? That's bollocks. An eSIM module is exactly the same chip as in a normal SIM card - right down to the electric specifications and communication protocols, so you can hook up a provisioned eSIM module to a phone or a SIM card to a device using an eSIM chip and it will Just Work (tm). The only difference is that the eSIM module is allowing the baseband ch…

I think that the risk is more about stealing the number more than reprogramming it. If I can move my eSIM to a new phone, so can an attacker.

This is already a problem with regular SIM cards and people social-engineering customer support reps into getting their SIMs provisioned with other people's numbers.

Carrier incompetence will exist regardless of if the SIM is physical or virtual.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#352

Post by smoovb » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #330

tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

Virtual sims are incredibly convenient for traveling. The first time I used one in Thailand it was magical: no need to buy and pop a physical SIM into your phone, and no need to take care and not lose your original SIM.

Thailand carriers are also competitive on the global stage due to the data arbitrage they get from so much inbound tourist data demand. The AIS SIM2Fly eSIM 130 country roaming SIM is 30% cheaper than Google Fi in about 90 countries and 60% cheaper in 30 Asian countries.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#353

Post by viktorcode » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

Many commenters have rightly pointed out limited availability of eSIM offers comparing to physical cards. However, it should be noted that Apple has immense weight in carrier world. They may 'ask' carriers to provide SIM /eSIM parity for the next iPhone model. If they do, the rest will follow. Technically, there are no barriers to migrate SIM tariffs to eSIM.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#354

Post by pieterhg » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

This hasn't been my experience. I use only eSIMs now on an iPhone 13. I buy eSIMs via Airalo's iOS app (not affiliated, not an ad but love it).

It takes me 30 seconds from buying an eSIM in any country worldwide from their app, paying with Apple Pay, to having it active and working with data and voice line.

I travel a lot and before it'd take 15 minutes to sometimes an hour of driving to a phone shop or finding it at the airport, getting your passport copied (fraud risk), getting foreign money in cash out to pay, and handing a stranger your phone.

Big improvement for me. And I can run 2x eSIMs at the same time!

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#355

Post by arthur_sav » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

sersi wrote: post #230

arthur_sav wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically when was the last time you switched your SIM card? I only change it when i change phones.

I have 4 SIM cards from 4 different countries that I need to keep. Mostly because I have bank accounts in those countries and banks either dislike foreign mobile phone numbers or accept them but then are unable to send any 2fa tokens quickly enough to those foreign phone numbers for the 2fa tokens to still be valid. So, I actually wish I had a quadruple sim phone, as it is I have two dual sim phones to handle this (w…

I think people like to complain for the sake of complaining. If you bothered to look, eSIM would suit you perfectly. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#356

Post by Tijdreiziger » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

throw0101a wrote: post #285

sandworm101 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in That is exactly what apple doesn't want you to do. They don't want users making deals with local ISPs for service. They want in on that transaction. Virtual SIMs, controlled by phone manufacturers, will allow them to exercise a degree of control over wandering users. If you are a local ISP, you better be part of the program if you wa…

> They don't want users making deals with local ISPs for service. They want in on that transaction. Virtual SIMs, controlled by phone manufacturers, will allow them to exercise a degree of control over wandering users. SIMs come from the phone company. How could it be otherwise as that's where the phone number comes from, and that's how the local physical network determines whether you're allowed to connect or not: *…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_SIM

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#357

Post by smoovb » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

zimbatm wrote: post #348

According to eSIM.net, eSIMs cannot be moved between phones. This is a pretty big step back IMO. If you want to keep the same phone number, the only way is to buy another eSIM for the new phone, and then use the PUK to transfer the old number to it.

You'll need the carrier's help to switch devices, for now. This will be solved if the eSIM technology issue is forced, but for now it's the major pain with eSIMs.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#358

Post by Tijdreiziger » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

conradev wrote: post #338

sandworm101 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in That is exactly what apple doesn't want you to do. They don't want users making deals with local ISPs for service. They want in on that transaction. Virtual SIMs, controlled by phone manufacturers, will allow them to exercise a degree of control over wandering users. If you are a local ISP, you better be part of the program if you wa…

To me, there is nothing to indicate this is a power grab by Apple. Google supports eSIM. Google can sell you cell service for your iPhone from the couch. If any phone manufacturer is trying to compete with the carriers, it would look a lot like Google, which made a global MVNO. Yes, there is usually a business motive behind every business decision. The GSMA makes it sound like the carriers want it, as well as the pho…

> [...] Google, which made a global MVNO.

> Google Fi is a service for US residents only, as of late 2019. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Fi

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#359

Post by Abroszka » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #350

Abroszka wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But my phone with USB-C, 2 SIM, SD card and headphone jack is alraedy waterproof. I literally wash it with soap and water to clean it...

Waterproofing is a spectrum ( https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207043 ), and seals fail over time. The fewer holes from the outside of the device to the inside, the fewer points of failure for the waterproofing. It was an openly stated reason for the move, and the first Apple phones to ditch the jack were the first to hit IP67 as a result.

They just said that to make people feel better. My Samsung A8 2018 with jack port is IP68/IP67.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#360

Post by jon889 » Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

There’s already an app called Airalo that lets you buy eSIMs in different countries. You don’t have to visit a shop to get a SIM which is better because in many countries the SIM shops will rip tourists off and/or there will be a language barrier issue.