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Tell HN: AWS appears to be down again

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Re: Tell HN: AWS appears to be down again

#351
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Don't use a self hosted monolithe, it's not reliable! You need a cloud FS with a load balancer under observability and your data in a db that scales horizontally, all orchestrated by kubs." Meanwhile, I currently have a gig to work on a video service which features a never updated centos 6, an unsupported python 2 blob website, and a push to prod deployment procedure, running a single postgres db serving streaming f…

Purely out of interest, I'd like to know more about your streaming architecture. I assume postgres just holds the meta data, and the actual video content is stored elsewhere? What strategies have you employed to scale the streaming part of your service? I imagine 4 million users a month is quite a significant amount of traffic!

1 - For the last 10 years, servers have been beasts. You have a lot of cores, plenty of HD and RAM. Servers are less expensives than devs. Scaling vertically can go VERY far.

2 - Caching is life. We have 3 layers of caching: cloudflare, varnish, and redis. Most things don't need to be real time. A lot of things can be a month old and the user doesn't care. User need immediate feedback to be happy, but not necessary fresh data.

3 - if you compile nginx manually, you get to use a lot of plugins that can do stuff super fast, including serving videos. You can script stuff in lua that will just skip the backend completly.

4 - mind your encoding. We carefully chose how we encode videos. The ffmpeg parameters are pretty insane, but the space / quality ratio is amazing, espacially on mobile. It takes a lot of time to experiment with those, nobody share them :)

5 - we offload everything we can to cron tasks or task queues. Including, obviously, encoding, screenshooting, etc.

6 - don't hold data you can't lose. E.G: billing. This way you can have a relaxed attitute toward data. If we ever loose a day of business, users will be in a bad mood for a week, but that won't be the end of the world. We don't need a bullet proof system if bullets can't kill us.

7 - give money to ffmpeg and opencv, because damn those things are fast. And good.

8 - servers are hosted accross 2 providers. This way, if one goes down, or decide to stop doing business with us Google style, we have a second one. Happened recently with leaseweb: they shutdown a whole room without offering an alternative.

E.G: votes.

They don't hit the backend on write. We pile them from nginx to redis, then once a day, we aggregate and store on postgres, which the backends will consumme. We just store each vote on localstorage as well so that the user feels like it's real time when they vote, but in reality it's updated once a day. But votes don't affect the money side of our business, so if we lose them one day, it does not mean death.

P.S: yes, posgres/redis/elasticsearch only hold metadata. Videos are stored on disk. There is no docker images, no mircoservices, FS is ext4. Which means with a lot of RAM, the OS FS cache will have most popular videos already loaded and ready to be streamed. Everything is raid 0, so if we get one disk corrupted, you lose the server. But we upload each videos on severeal servers, so when a disk get corrupted, we just replace the whole server. In fact, anything goes wrong on a server, we replace it. It's not worth it to find the root cause, unless 2 servers die in the same way successively.

Re: Tell HN: AWS appears to be down again

#352
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Electrical power systems are designed to be fully redundant so that in the event of a disruption, uninterruptible power supply units can be engaged for certain functions, while generators can provide backup power for the entire facility." https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/data-center/infrastructure... So they have 2 different sources of power coming in. And generators. They do mention the UPS is only for "certain fu…

Usually when someone claims T3+ they mean they have UPS clusters in 3+1 (or such) configuration and two different such UPS clusters power two power-strips in a rack. Then, would also have incoming grid power supply from two different HV sub-stations with non-intersecting cable paths. They would also have diesel power generators in 3+1 or 5+2 configurations with automatic startup time in seconds. The UPS's power stora…

Though that doesn't match very well with "uninterruptible power supply units can be engaged for certain functions". It sounds worded to convey that the UPS is limited in some way. An interesting old summary of their 2012 us-east-1 incident with power/generators/ups/switching: https://aws.amazon.com/message/67457/

Re: Tell HN: AWS appears to be down again

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have run high availability (HA) systems in prem and your statement vastly understates the difficulty and expense. You need multiple physical links in running to different ISPs because builders working on properties further down the street could accidentally cut through your fibre. Or the ISP themselves could suffer an outage. You need a back up generator and to be a short distance away from a petrol station so you…

That's true for on-prem infrastructure, but is all already handled for you if you rent servers from hosting providers such as OVH/Hetzner or even rent colocation space in an existing DC, and is still cheaper than the cloud equivalent (and as we saw recently, actually more reliable as well).

That’s not what you’ve seen recently. When Hetzner goes down nobody cares, because nobody with important workloads and brain cells is running then there.

Colo space assumes that the colo is operating more efficiently than AWS/Azure/GCP when in reality you’re comparing apples and oranges.

Re: Tell HN: AWS appears to be down again

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, S3 possibly the villain here

I wonder if there's an s3 compatible service with similar pricing that can be used as a fallback? Are digital ocean s3 compatible storage accounts's backed by real s3?

Would Wasabi.com meet your requirements?

I’m not affiliated with them, and haven’t even really used them other than to explore a bit. They come highly recommended by my acquaintances, though.

Re: Tell HN: AWS appears to be down again

#355
post #56

5ish years ago it was common knowledge that us-east-1 is generally the worst place to put anything that needs to be reliable. I guess this is still true?

Unfortunately, the fact that us-east-1 is roughly 10% cheaper than other regions usually overrides any other concerns

Re: Tell HN: AWS appears to be down again

#356
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human capital side would disagree with that I think. You're assuming the organization which owns this small/medium web app has the personnel already on staff to handle such a thing. If you're outsourcing that, you'd likely have to pay a boatload just for someone to be available for help, let alone the actual tasks themselves. Like you said, if you're on-prem and something goes down, you can do something. But you've g…

You still need to pay someone to manage AWS infrastructure. It’s possible to save money using AWS, but things often get more expensive.

Of SMBs I’ve worked with, about 5% had a dedicated AWS engineer

Re: Tell HN: AWS appears to be down again

#357
post #303

AWS didn’t “go down”. They had an outage in one AZ, which is why there are multiple AZs in each region. If your app went down then you should be blaming your developers on this one, not AWS. Those having issues are discovering gaps in their HA designs. Obviously it’s not good for an AZ to go down but it does happen and why any production workload should be architected to have seamless failover and recover to other AZ…

Issues are across all us-east 1, not one AZ.

Load balancers are not doing well at all. The only way in this case to avoid an outage is to be cross regions or cross cloud which is quite more complex to handle and require more resources to do well.

And I hope that nobody is listening your blaming and pointing fingers advice, that's the worst way to solve anything.

It's AWS job to ensure that things are reliable, that there is redundancy and that multi-AZ infra should be safe enough. The amount of issues in US-EAST-1 lately is really worrying.

Re: Tell HN: AWS appears to be down again

#359
post #302
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Dual power in each server/device - One PSU was powered by one outlet, the other PSU by a different one with a different source meaning that we can lose a single power supply/circuit and nothing happens Nothing happens if you remember that your new capacity limit per DC supply is 50% of the actual limit, and you're 100% confident that either of your supplies can seamlessly handle their load suddenly increasing by…

EDIT: I misunderstood you were talking about power feeds, the normal case is the run "48% as if it's 100%" (because of power spikes, but also most types of transformers run more efficiently under specific levels of load (40-60). Normally this is factored into the Rack you buy from a hardware provider, they will tell you that you have 10A or 16A on each feed, if you exceed that: it will work, but you are overloading t…

OP is talking about the DC power feed, not a single server PSU.

Re: Tell HN: AWS appears to be down again

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How come they dont have power backups?

They do. I remember watching one of their sessions where they showed every rack having its own battery backup.

An article on that: https://datacenterfrontier.com/aws-designs-in-rack-micro-ups...

Interesting quote:

“This is exactly the sort of design that lets me sleep like a baby,” said DeSantis. “And indeed, this new design is getting even better availability” – better than “seven nines” or 99.99999 percent uptime, DeSantis said.

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