Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis • Hacker News Board

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#351

Post by Dylan16807 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 12:48 AM UTC

jagged-chisel wrote: post #207

cesarb wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For future reference, the current headline is "Six Amazon workers killed after tornadoes reduce warehouse near St. Louis", which makes one wonder whether it was a tornado or some sort of shrink ray.

"Reduced to rubble" is familiar enough to me to get the gist. I did think it an odd choice, but had no problem understanding. I mean, I'm not aware of any current shrink ray technology...

"to rubble" is a reasonable guess but chopping off a piece of the building is also a plausible interpretation.

And actually, looking at the right images, that might be more the more accurate interpretation. It seems like the warehouse was big enough that half of it is intact.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#352

Post by dylan604 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 1:07 AM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #234

dylan604 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking of what jobs this would be a thing...all of them. Turn your damn ringers off at work people!!!

Even with ringer off, the ‘Amber Alerts” ring. I’ve had it ruin recording sessions.

Amber alerts are not really that frequent. Jane 2 cubicles over that has that cute ring tone, or Jim next to you with the clicks whose got text notifications turned to 11 are the problem.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#353

Post by dylan604 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

SECProto wrote: post #345

dylan604 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you being pedantic with no information on how to receive local broadcasts because you've chosen to not have TV/radio/etc, or are you really just unaware of how to do this on modern equipment? Many responses answer if it is the latter, for the former, well, go back under your bridge troll ;-)

I was being pedantic. But also truthful, in that I do not have a tv and the only radio is in my car.

That's what I thought. So, the onus is on you to stay informed. Society has put in place many many ways to notify of severe weather. You have elected to use none. Don't be the next statistic.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#354

Post by jfrunyon » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:06 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #350

jfrunyon wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That map is showing the only definition of tornado alley there can be if you insist on a single definition: where tornados happen. I'm not sure who your most people are but they ain't mine.

> That map is showing the only definition of tornado alley there can be if you insist on a single definition: where tornados happen. That's a weird definition you're insisting on. More than half the width of the country isn't an alley. It's true that anything narrower is giving up on "single definition: where tornadoes happen". But that's also what you have to do. It's an inherent part of the term to be more narrow t…

You're correct, Raleigh isn't in tornado alley. Raleigh also gets a fraction (somewhere around 1/3rd) of the tornadoes that St Louis does. Whereas St Louis gets as many tornadoes as most of whatever YOU consider "tornado alley".

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#355

Post by Dylan16807 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:16 AM UTC

jfrunyon wrote: post #354

Dylan16807 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That map is showing the only definition of tornado alley there can be if you insist on a single definition: where tornados happen. That's a weird definition you're insisting on. More than half the width of the country isn't an alley. It's true that anything narrower is giving up on "single definition: where tornadoes happen". But that's also what you have to do. It's an inherent part of the term to be more narrow t…

You're correct, Raleigh isn't in tornado alley. Raleigh also gets a fraction (somewhere around 1/3rd) of the tornadoes that St Louis does. Whereas St Louis gets as many tornadoes as most of whatever YOU consider "tornado alley".

Your use of "YOU" is weird when I haven't even really decided what I think should be called tornado alley. I just wanted to point out that whatever method you're using is not "single definition: where tornadoes happen"; it's something more subjective.

Also to be clear I was using "Raleigh" as shorthand for "that orange cell right next to Raleigh", which is the same 11-15 color as St. Louis.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#356

Post by wolverine876 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:37 AM UTC

Cookingboy wrote: post #289

romwell wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Were there no warnings for the severe weather storm that would have prevented people coming in to work or allowed them to leave work early? There were warnings. Warnings that skipping work would get one fired[1]. And since the warehouse was not closed that day, the warning was: clock in on time, or else, weather be damned. >When I was working in the office... Well there's a difference between how office employees ar…

Honestly you sound like one of those armchair analysts from California who have no idea what weather even is. The warnings for tornado touchdowns are minutes at best. Businesses don't shut down whenever there is a bad storm with the possibility of tornado. It happens way too frequently for that to be practical.

What does California have to do with it?

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#357

Post by wolverine876 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:38 AM UTC

Hokusai wrote: post #216

Moru wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And because we keep buying from Amazon no matter what.

The solution is regulations and unions. If it's not Amazon it will be something else. Many people do not have time or money to look for alternatives. I never buy on Amazon but directly from the providers, but that takes time that I have but many people does not.

> If it's not Amazon it will be something else.

Companies do vary in how they treat their workers. Some are unionized.

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#358

Post by wolverine876 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:40 AM UTC

floatingatoll wrote: post #175

bmitc wrote: post #161

I don’t understand a few things, as they aren’t covered in the article, that I saw. Were there no warnings for the severe weather storm that would have prevented people coming in to work or allowed them to leave work early? When I was working in the office, we were usually forced (literally security swept the building) to leave when severe winter weather was coming in a few times. Why doesn’t Amazon, in the middle of…

Amazon penalizes their workers for bathroom breaks and replaced their HR team with a chatbot. This is allowed by federal labor laws, and Amazon’s primary source of retail revenue is externalizing human costs. Our tech and business communities believe regulations are harmful, and American politicians are inept. So I don’t see how we can prevent their abuse unless something changes; yet, no one wants to be the one that…

> Our tech and business communities believe regulations are harmful, and American politicians are inept.

Perhaps the latter is a convenient way to take action on the former?

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#359

Post by romwell » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 10:46 AM UTC

Cookingboy wrote: post #289

romwell wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Were there no warnings for the severe weather storm that would have prevented people coming in to work or allowed them to leave work early? There were warnings. Warnings that skipping work would get one fired[1]. And since the warehouse was not closed that day, the warning was: clock in on time, or else, weather be damned. >When I was working in the office... Well there's a difference between how office employees ar…

Honestly you sound like one of those armchair analysts from California who have no idea what weather even is. The warnings for tornado touchdowns are minutes at best. Businesses don't shut down whenever there is a bad storm with the possibility of tornado. It happens way too frequently for that to be practical.

What's up with justifying corporate manslaughter? Also yay for assuming.

The point here was that employees who knew better didn't have an option to say, shit, it's not looking good, it's too risky to come to work / stay at work. And at least one person died because of that[2].

For the record, my partner used to live in Kansas, I've spent a fair amount of time there (years, months at a time). K-State campus, where she was working, was hit by a tornado during that time. I know what a tornado siren sounds like. My mother lives in Kentucky now; luckily, way North of where the damage was. I've spent about half of my adult life in Texas, driving through OK more times than I can remember on I-35.

I'm aware of the measures that can be taken to ensure safety in case of a tornado. Like, having a tornado shelter, or not cheaping out on construction. And perhaps allowing people to leave work early without punishing them if they feel scared enough.

As for warning time, Amazon got between 11 and 21 minutes of lead time[1]. Enough time to walk a mile, or drive 15.

Amazon then ordered people to stay at the facility[2], and directed them to "shelter in place" in bathrooms, where some of them met their death[1].

Specifically, the person in [2] clearly "had an idea about what weather even is", and had enough time to get home safely. He is dead now.

But hey, it's practical.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/amazon-driver-di...

[2] https://nypost.com/2021/12/12/amazon-worker-texted-girlfrien...

Re: Six dead after tornadoes destroy Amazon warehouse near St Louis

#360

Post by jrochkind1 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #285

fraXis wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When is the character limit on HN going to be increased so we can create longer subjects/headlines?

We're not going to do that, for a bunch of reasons. One is that it's a creative constraint which (after 15 years I think we can say) is always possible to work within. Another is that if we made it longer, people would soon experience the new length as a constraint in its own right.

One trick is that HN also recommends we use the original headline from the piece posted. Whenever I have to edit it for length, I sometimes worry I'm going to be warned for editorializing a headline.