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Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

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Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#351

Post by sudosysgen »

benja123 wrote: post #333
DSingularity wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, except the hasbara efforts are real and well documented. Pretty disingenuous for you to try and present OP in such a way.

Israeli here. I don’t want to get into an argument here about the six NGOs, Israel and NSO group. I personally don’t have enough information to make an informed decision on it. There is one thing I want to clarify though. Hasbara is Hebrew for “explaining” - so when Israelis or any Hebrew speaker say hasbara it literally means “explaining” their point of view. Now more often or not, Israelis and Hebrew speakers actua…

Hasbara refers to simply explaining the same way that Islam refers to mere submission. When people are talking about Hasbara with an uppercase H they are referring to government PR programs - ie, propaganda.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#352

Post by int_19h »

zouhair wrote: post #346
int_19h wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case of ANC, it definitely did things that fit the colloqual definition of terrorism - i.e. targeting civilians for political purposes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMkhonto_we_Sizwe#1980s:_Bombi... That's not a justification of apartheid, though. One can argue that apartheid and terrorism are both morally despicable. Or one may argue that terrorism is sometimes justifiable. And there are many other historical ex…

I'd call Bantustans terrorism though.

Why bother, when there's an example of straight-up, blatant terrorist tactics by the apartheid government:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Council_of_Churc...

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#353

Post by poisonarena »

helge9210 wrote: post #349
FridayoLeary wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your opinion, how should the IDF act do if they know that every teenager can become a potential mass murderer? Your words, not mine. Bear in mind that soldiers are people and they can feel emotions such as fear and anger over dead comrades. Of course unjustified violence is not right, but you can't exactly expect them to engage in community relationships. They also can't ignore the status quo which involves terror…

> how should the IDF act do Solution is simple: end the occupation. > which involves terrorists Your terrorists are someone else's freedom fighters.

> Solution is simple: end the occupation.

That is not an answer, might as well have just written "Free Palestine!"

I would be interested in hearing your real solution, instead of just repeating a slogan. Nobody has been able to figure it out for decades.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#354

Post by poisonarena »

helge9210 wrote: post #262
yonixw wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You are making an hypothetical based on orders. Which amount to nothing. 2) Searching google for "shock grenades on a girl israel" will show you first a Jewish Ultra-Orthodox girl getting hit around a corona protest last year: https://twitter.com/almogbenzikri/status/1251004227956150273 So this is a police brutality issue, not a Palestine issue. 3) Based on your previous comments- "Hamas is an ally of Israel in Ga…

> 1) You are making an hypothetical based on orders. Which amount to nothing. No, my colleague actually spent time in jail for military crimes. > 2) Searching google for You get what you search for. > you are just out of the loop Or, what is more probable, you are just pushing Hasbara.

You say your Israeli.. But then you use the phrase"

"you are just pushing Hasbara."

I'm Israeli, and I have never met an Israeli who would say that phrase, Especially in english, using the hebrew word like that. Something doesn't add up.. Are you russian or israeli arab or something? You had work partners in magav and they told you they put a stun grenade in a baby stroller? This seems pretty weird..

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#355

Post by helge9210 »

poisonarena wrote: post #353
helge9210 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how should the IDF act do Solution is simple: end the occupation. > which involves terrorists Your terrorists are someone else's freedom fighters.

> Solution is simple: end the occupation. That is not an answer, might as well have just written "Free Palestine!" I would be interested in hearing your real solution, instead of just repeating a slogan. Nobody has been able to figure it out for decades.

This depends on what is the desired outcome. Currently our real goals are defined by Lebensraum ideology. Of course, ending the occupation is not helping here.

The moment we ditch colonial dreams and ideas of racial superiority (as a base for Zionism), there are two possible solutions: pull out settlements, pull out army or annex all the territories, give citizenship to all residents. In both cases, , start preparation for return of refugees and work out compensation (like Germany after WW2).

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#356

Post by poisonarena »

helge9210 wrote: post #355
poisonarena wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Solution is simple: end the occupation. That is not an answer, might as well have just written "Free Palestine!" I would be interested in hearing your real solution, instead of just repeating a slogan. Nobody has been able to figure it out for decades.

This depends on what is the desired outcome. Currently our real goals are defined by Lebensraum ideology. Of course, ending the occupation is not helping here. The moment we ditch colonial dreams and ideas of racial superiority (as a base for Zionism), there are two possible solutions: pull out settlements, pull out army or annex all the territories, give citizenship to all residents. In both cases, , start preparati…

I dont think you are israeli,not that I dont agree with your points, but because I dont think you are talking like one. I think you are from Russia or an arab larping as an israeli

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#357

Post by rhizome »

seoaeu wrote: post #127
VictorPath wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel launched over 900 attacks on Gaza in May, killed hundreds of Palestinians, and displaced tens of thousands of Palestinians. The UN estimate is 461 housing and commercial units were destroyed by Israel's bombing of Gaza. I don't dispute even more could have been killed by Israel and more destroyed by Israel if the United Nations Security Council did not call for an ending to it and that if that did not happen "…

A quick google search reveals that the US launched 2800000 ground attack missions during the Vietnam war, dropping 15000000000 pounds of bombs. That works out to an average of several hundred attacks per day for two decades. I also encourage you to look at Wikipedia's List of ongoing armed conflicts [1], which lists the Israeli–Palestinian conflict as a "Minor Conflict" given its scale in comparison to the other entr…

You're indulging in the fallacy of relative privation and trying to change the subject for some reason.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#358

Post by helge9210 »

poisonarena wrote: post #356
helge9210 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This depends on what is the desired outcome. Currently our real goals are defined by Lebensraum ideology. Of course, ending the occupation is not helping here. The moment we ditch colonial dreams and ideas of racial superiority (as a base for Zionism), there are two possible solutions: pull out settlements, pull out army or annex all the territories, give citizenship to all residents. In both cases, , start preparati…

I dont think you are israeli,not that I dont agree with your points, but because I dont think you are talking like one. I think you are from Russia or an arab larping as an israeli

Where to should I send my proof of citizenship and results of testing for STDs?

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#359

Post by curryst »

yonixw wrote: post #91
VictorPath wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Al-Haq is a Palestinian human rights NGO funded by the European Union. Two weeks ago, Israel labeled six Palestinian NGOs, including al-Haq, terrorist organizations and has outlawed them. This was condemned by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and others. The EU also funded the other Palestinian human rights NGOs which Israel outlawed. The US had an office in Jerusalem dealing with Palestinians that Trump clo…

> including the building in which the Associated Press had its office, a building Israel said it purposely targeted. Why did you omit the reason for targeting? "... because it was being used by the groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad and that terrorist attacks were directed from there" https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-received-mo...

Because it was never substantiated. There's little point in repeating information that's no more trustworthy than taking a poll of random people on the street.

Israel is free not to release their evidence, and the rest of us are free to infer what we would like from the fact that a first world nation refuses to substantiate their reasoning for bombing a news outlet.

That would stand for pretty much any nation that considers itself to be free. If Germany bombed their AP HQ and refused to release any evidence of why, there would be some very stern questions as well.

Re: Six Palestinian organizations hacked with NSO Group’s Pegasus Spyware

#360

Post by thefringthing »

nwiswell wrote: post #310
kodah wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have any skin in the game here, just an observers perspective. Just looking through these comments I understand nothing of the narratives at play for either side. Most of them don't line up with history I can find at Wikipedia, or they'll partially match but then deviate significantly in some fanciful explanation.

This is the entire conflict in a nutshell. Sometimes it feels like there are no good guys on either side -- obviously not true, but the lack of any real ground truth can give rise to that illusion. There's more mud than honor in the Middle East, I guess you could say, and probably not because there's a shortage of the latter.

Something I think helps a lot to bring moral clarity to one's thinking about the Israel-Palestine conflict is to locate where the material power to end it lies, rather than to search vainly for a party without blood on its hands.
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