Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm • Hacker News Board

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#351

Post by bagels » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #91

From my point-of-view as a former firefighter, I would say this: A building meant to house 4500 students, with only two entrances? There's a word for that: deathtrap. Building this is setting UCSB up to be the site of the next Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire[1], Station Nightclub fire[2], or Hamlet Chicken Processing Plant fire[3]. At a first glance, based only on the information provided in the article, I'd say tha…

My first reaction was the terrible danger this design presents as well. Doesn't code require each room to have two means of egress? Usually the second one is a window.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#352

Post by superkuh » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #309

rglullis wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These 4500 kids in their sardine rooms will have multiple food options, probably several gyms, rec rooms, libraries, etc... all "down the hall". No better way to get kids prepared for what comes ahead in their adulthood, huh?

Preparing/conditioning today's young adults for the dystopian future, where all our jobs are being done by robots, and the elite class needs to warehouse the rest of us safely away in 2mx2m cells in gigantic concrete honeycomb dormitories, where we're given a TV and one Soma per day.

If anyone is interested, this is basically the first half of the speculative fiction story, "Mana" (https://marshallbrain.com/manna1) which has been posted here on HN a few times.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#353

Post by ghaff » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #337

lbriner wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is great except 50% of people are introverts and need space to recharge. How many people live like this in real life? That speaks to the choice of hanging out followed by "leave me alone". It sounds like an experiment but it could probably have been done slightly further "away from home" if it was about collaboration. Just have places to encourage people to hang out if they want to and not if they don't. Forcin…

Or, you force socialization on a population that's increasingly turning inward, to the detriment of society in general. It's hubris that on one hand HN can bitch about how egomaniacal companies like Facebook and Google are, and yet on the other complain about how architecture designed to promote socialization is unfair. Where do we think those social-deaf, micro-optimizing engineers come from?

Among other things, architectural design makes decisions about how space is allocated and how it will probably be used. Of course, architects get things wrong. The dorm I lived in undergraduate did a fair bit well--and also had some common space that was sort of out of the way and was hardly ever used.

But one way or another, an architect is going to design things in a way that (they think) optimizes for certain behaviors and use whether that's socializing/collaborating or the maximum privacy/anonymity.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#354

Post by lozenge » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

ldoughty wrote: post #158

mindcrime wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which history shows us tend to be locked or barricaded when they're not supposed to be, or obstructed in some other way, or otherwise unavailable. Sure, there are other egresses available in principle. Hell, you can sledge-hammer your way through a wall in a pinch. But in any practical sense? Having two primary ingress/egress points is a horrible idea.

I can't recall the last time I saw a fire exit blocked... Feels like one of those things people keep repeating because of a handful of newsworthy events a year...

If a handful of fire exits are blocked during a fire every year, aren't there 1,000x more that are blocked during no fire?

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#355

Post by op00to » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #332

dragonwriter wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my point-of-view as a former firefighter, I would say this: > A building meant to house 4500 students, with only two entrances? I would think that, you being a former firefighter, you’d know that exits (for regular use and, even more so, emergency exits ) are not the same thing as (are generally a superset of) entrances. The plans for the building [0] show 10 escape stairs with dedicated exits (including the f…

I would think that, you being a former firefighter, you’d know that exits (for regular use and, even more so, emergency exits) are not the same thing as (are generally a superset of) entrances. Yes, I've already addressed that point multiple times in this discussion. Emergency exits are a factor, but not a be-all / end-all. State building codes in California have for new construction for more than 30 years (heck, Cal…

Where are you? In the northeast, sprinklers have been required in institutional buildings for as long as California.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#356

Post by tw04 » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #256

nescioquid wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former firefighter cautions we should be skeptical of the safety of this plan, and your rebuttal is "surely building codes mandate..."? A zero-evidence rebuttal concerning the safety of 4500 students.

I don’t find it unreasonable to assume that the building will comply with government fire safety regulations and that those regulations are at least somewhat adequate.

I don't find it unreasonable to think that government regulations around fire safety are based on current building trends. Nobody in the US stuffs 4500 people into a single building with almost all of them in the interior of the building. Nobody would voluntarily live that way, even the "projects" were/are more humane.

Just looking at the proposed floorplan, in an emergency it would be a nightmare to get out. 7 kids trying to get out that one door with a giant table in the way while likely panicking? It screams deathtrap.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#357

Post by mikeg8 » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #325

notRobot wrote: post #17

No windows? No natural light whatsoever? That's gotta have a serious negative impact on the mental health (and possibly sleep patterns?) of the students. Not to mention that in case of a fire, all the people rushing to the two exits will get into a stampede, and those who remain in their rooms will suffocate, with no windows to open for fresh air or to be rescued from? This is the most dystopian thing I've heard of i…

Even in the US having living quarters with no windows must be illegal. It’s dumb enough that people are allowed to work in offices with no windows, but this has to be illegal.

But it is not. Not all rooms can be places along the exterior walls of the building.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#358

Post by rglullis » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #309

rglullis wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These 4500 kids in their sardine rooms will have multiple food options, probably several gyms, rec rooms, libraries, etc... all "down the hall". No better way to get kids prepared for what comes ahead in their adulthood, huh?

Preparing/conditioning today's young adults for the dystopian future, where all our jobs are being done by robots, and the elite class needs to warehouse the rest of us safely away in 2mx2m cells in gigantic concrete honeycomb dormitories, where we're given a TV and one Soma per day.

You won't have any possessions, and you will like it.

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#359

Post by ciabattabread » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #221

Sad that economical living spaces are considered so radical on HN. I lived in a small dorm with a crappy roommate (actual roommate, not flatmate). So I didn't spend any unnecessary time in my room outside of sleeping. I hung out at the library, cafeteria, etc and went to random talks/activities on campus (there are a lot of them on a big campus). No windows? Sunlight alarms exist. They're great. Modern AC is also gre…

> No windows? Sunlight alarms exist. They're great. Modern AC is also great.

From an economic standpoint, why spend money on an inferior substitute when you can get the real thing for free?!

Re: Architect Resigns in Protest over UCSB Mega-Dorm

#360

Post by api » Fri, Oct 29, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

phone8675309 wrote: post #204

ceejayoz wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, compare SpaceX against, say, SLS, and it looks like a pretty cost-effective form of government spending.

There wasn’t the political will in Congress to make SLS a success because it’s not a voting issue for most of their constituents. This is the fate of any ambitious tech development unless that technology can be used to incinerate half of the world in nuclear-fueled hellfire (moon race), spy on the American people without a warrant, kill brown people in the third world, or be give secondhand to the police to fight the…

A successful SLS would have been a failure. It costs far more per launch and is not reusable.

NASA could have built a reusable space launch system better than the shuttle, but they didn't. That's exactly my point about billionaires leading by default. It took a billionaire because nobody else did it.