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Overly analytical guide to escorting

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Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#351
post #298
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least a woman can take the easy way out and become a prostitute. A man has no such "luxury". Society does not pity weak men the way it pities weak women.

It's the apex of capitalist dehumanization to suggest that having few marketable services makes a person "weak" or that being having sex with people you don't love for money to eat food is a "luxury." Re-evaluate how you see people.

sadly the comments here reflect the overwhelming male capitalist bias of the HN community.

- A transactional view of life and relationships.

- Quick dismissal of concern for sex worker exploitation because "all jobs are exploitation", which simultaneously (a) minimizes the particularly bad nature of sexual exploitation, (b) speciously defines all work as exploitative, effectively neutering the word "exploitation" and (c) essentially saying exploitation is normal.

- There's almost a palpable giddiness in the comments overall. You can sense the immense confirmation bias. A post by a sex worker who portrays it in very businesslike and mostly positive ways, speaking positively about most of her customers, essentially providing validation for men who want to buy sex, who don't want to feel any guilt, or think about whether they are being exploitative / taking advantage of an imbalance of power.

- Few showing any awareness that Aella's is far from the typical experience, that most sex work is done in desperation, that our society doesn't give everyone even close to a level playing field.

- A harsh reaction against anyone being a party pooper by raising negative issues.

- Some comments showing veiled resentment that they have to pay a woman for sex, that women have it easier, that men are the unlucky ones, the oppressed ones.

- Compare the reaction here to posts about sexism in the tech industry.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short answer: yes. Longer answer: assuming there is no direct coercion, like a trafficker ring/pimp involved, I fail to see how this kind of struggle is any different than the single parent working night shifts at WalMart who still needs food stamps to feed the family. Or the low wage worker going to a factory each day ripping chickens apart so you can have your chicken breast and chicken nuggets. If your theoretical…

So do you see all of these examples, yours (the Walmat worker, chicken factory worker, etc) and mine (the woman doing sex work out of desperation) as just a fact of life, the nature of things, everyone's gotta do what they gotta do? Or do you see them all as exploitation? As manifestations of the inherent injustices of our socioeconomic system? Or something else? How do you feel about the description "consenting adul…

>What about a female employee who doesn't stop her boss's sexual advances because he controls her income and career? Is that a transaction between consenting adults?

You're trying to flip the script here. A boss (i.e. a concrete person yielding some form of power over another person) trying to coerce the employee is on the same line as a pimp or human traffickers using coercion (or worse).

I was never talking about that, I was talking about a person who looks at the options in the job market, and figures all on own their that prostitution is the least shitty option available to them. And some prostitutes reportedly even like their job well enough. But even if they don't, they can join the large group of other people who do not like their jobs either, but do it anyway to provide for themselves and loved ones.

There is no coerced consent.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me somewhat oddly that one might pay so much for something that literally half the people on this planet is equipped to provide You're paying for looks, ease, simplicity, no strings, and so on... I get it. But idunno, that is a lot of money for one nut. Also suprised the San Diego price is so high, when there is a red light district literally on the border in Tijuana, and those girls charge $60-$100/hr US…

This is a fascinating topic! There's depths to it like you can't even imagine. Sex is a market, and like any market, it has theories that can explain it. For example: in most places, most of the time, prostitutes charge the same "rate" as wives do, because they're suppliers in competition , and the market sets the price. Oh, you think your wife doesn't "charge" you for sex? How quaint and romantic! Of course she does…

> You're paying more rent. You're paying for more food.

Why?

> You're paying with expensive gifts, trips

Willingly

> you're paying to raise one or more kids

How is that a payment to wife? Those are my kids, it was my decision to make them so now I support them.

> In many countries it's literally a crime for men not to pay child support.

What does paying your social duties has with "payment to your wife"? What, society should raise your offsprings for free?

> Most men have sex once or twice a week with their spouse, and more than half of their disposable income goes towards their partner and their kids.

Partners are not exclusively for sex, partners are someone you want to spend your life with and, optionally, make kids.

Do you have problems with your wife or smth?

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#354
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many jobs are somewhat like that, but it's a matter of degree. Compare the market price of the job to the price that would lead people to want to take the job. A lot of people would be willing to become a janitor at 3 times the market wages for janitors. A lot of people who are physically able to do construction work would take the job at 3 times the market rate for construction work. Not a lot of people would be wil…

>Not a lot of people would be willing to become a prostitute at 3 times the market rate for prostitutes. Citation please. I find it very hard to believe that prostitution is immune to the same price based supply and demand forces that every other labor pool is.

The problem is that people who become prostitutes are often people who have no other choice. So you'll get a bifurcated distribution: people who will only take the job at some incredibly high multiple (because prostitution is really awful compared to other choices) and people who will take the job at any price because the janitors aren't hiring and they need to eat. The point of the comparison is to capture this problem.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#355

I wonder if crypto will enable future crimes like blackmail as a service. E.g. > Escort moves to country B from country A. > Acquires list of clients and determines their local contacts > Leaves country B > Informs previous clients that they need to submit monthly BTC payments or else contacts will receive secretly recorded videos Continue to jump between countries and create larger baseline of blackmail dividends.

What does Bitcoin add here?

Money transfers that can’t be stopped by international organizations.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, many men wake up with the desire to build things. That is not an atypical desire. Many men wake up with a desire to build things for money. Many women do as well. Few people wake up wanting to sell their procreative parts to the highest bidder.

> Few people wake up wanting to sell their procreative parts to the highest bidder. Even supposing few people want to do that, I don't see how it follows that nobody should be permitted to do it. You're missing a critical step.

Because the action under consideration is of a wholly different class than the others you mention.

For example, we regulate ivf, don't we? Why? Because the action undertaken has the ability to create new life.

The same is true of prostitution. The action undertaken is of a wholly different nature. Namely it can create people, which is different than any other labor.

Tolerating homosexual prostitution is actually more akin to your other analogies in that the action undertaken is not special. Although anal intercourse in general ought to be discouraged due to its deleterious health effects.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, many men wake up with the desire to build things. That is not an atypical desire. Many men wake up with a desire to build things for money. Many women do as well. Few people wake up wanting to sell their procreative parts to the highest bidder.

If you're okay with one of these things but not the other, then you are applying a double standard based on a moralisation of sex. Sex as labour is no different than any labour, and there is no criticism of sex work that is whole an complete that does not also criticise the very system you're defending.

> Sex as labour is no different than any labour,

In capitalistic society everything can be called labour, including selling people, their organs and their genitals for sex.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex is very different. Last I checked, no matter how much construction work you do, you will never construct another person, even by accident. Sex is not just another activity. Due to its effects of potentially creating a new human being, it is a category unto itself and deserves special treatment. For example, would you sell your pancreas? Why not? Is it because a vital organ is not in the same class of goods as say…

> For example, would you sell your pancreas? Why not? Is it because a vital organ is not in the same class of goods as say a lightbulb? [...] Your kind of equivocation is morally lazy and conveniently abiological. Speaking of lazy, that's a pretty ridiculous comparison. Depriving yourself of a vital organ is not the same as renting out your genitals for a limited time. "Making a new person" is also a complete red her…

> You can hire a surrogate to carry a baby to term

In the vast majority of first world countries this is illegal for precisely the reasons I described. Only extremely poor countries or barbaric jurisdictions, such as California, allow paid surrogacy.

> not the same as renting out your genitals for a limited time.

Given the genitals ability to produce life that can last many years beyond yourself, you're absolutely right. Renting out your genitals is much worse.

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#359
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don't feel that sex work is worse than any other work, unless we (society) make it so. I could be entirely wrong, but would a poor, struggling woman trying to do three non-sex jobs to feed that same child be in a particularly better position?

This question has an answer. If sex work is just like any other job, then many, if not most Western welfare societies demand that an unemployed person takes any job in their skill-set. So you end up demanding women go back to the prostitution - because there is an opening at the local brothel next to the truck stop. This isn't theoretical - it has happened more than once in Germany. https://www.smh.com.au/world/no-jo…

I'm not entirely sure I grasp what you're trying to demonstrate.

1. Yes, most Western societies demand that an unemployed person takes any job in their skill-set.

2. Yes, there are certainly openings at the local brothel.

3. With any luck, there are also openings for other jobs at the local supermarket, or as teachers, or as nannies, or working the fields, or cleaning cars, or coding, or...

=> Yes, some women (and I imagine some men) are going to end up sex workers. Others are going to become supermarket employees, teachers, nannies...

I don't quite connect this to your affirmation that "its not normal work."

Re: Overly analytical guide to escorting

#360
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not a lot of people would be willing to become a prostitute at 3 times the market rate for prostitutes. Citation please. I find it very hard to believe that prostitution is immune to the same price based supply and demand forces that every other labor pool is.

The problem is that people who become prostitutes are often people who have no other choice. So you'll get a bifurcated distribution: people who will only take the job at some incredibly high multiple (because prostitution is really awful compared to other choices) and people who will take the job at any price because the janitors aren't hiring and they need to eat. The point of the comparison is to capture this prob…

True. Ultimately, the problem which requires a solution is not decriminalization of the prostitution but the origin of why people get into the situation where prostitution starts looking as a way out. But, since no one cares, decriminalization is a good thing to do - excluding people from the society for getting into the situation, which is a product of this society, is unfair
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