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I just don’t want to be busy anymore

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Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#351

Post by pivo »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #298
sillysaurusx wrote: post #109

One thing that helped me is not to care so much about my employer's goals. It's almost heretical. But once you embrace this mindset, it does wonders. Or at least, it has for me so far. I think a lot of us want to be proud of the work we do, and we feel that if we slack off, then we shouldn't be proud. But it's the other way around. I think the slackers have it right. You're probably not going to get rich from working…

I totally agree. Don't be "pro-active" be "re-active" - is my way of putting it. Frankly, most orgs will not reward pro-activity, in fact you can even be punished for it, since if a problem is not yet known by stakeholders then why are you solving it. There have been times in my career where I spotted issues from other teams on preview or staging servers and helped to fix it. Then I later got blamed (or dragged into…

> Don't be "pro-active" be "re-active"

I moved from development to management a few years ago and as a manager I have to say my proactive developers are far more valuable to me. I recognise their value and I give them more interesting work and more financial rewards as a result. I also do everything I can to be sure that they're happy and not overworked because I'd hate to lose any of them.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#352

Post by TeoTwawki »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #298
sillysaurusx wrote: post #109

One thing that helped me is not to care so much about my employer's goals. It's almost heretical. But once you embrace this mindset, it does wonders. Or at least, it has for me so far. I think a lot of us want to be proud of the work we do, and we feel that if we slack off, then we shouldn't be proud. But it's the other way around. I think the slackers have it right. You're probably not going to get rich from working…

I totally agree. Don't be "pro-active" be "re-active" - is my way of putting it. Frankly, most orgs will not reward pro-activity, in fact you can even be punished for it, since if a problem is not yet known by stakeholders then why are you solving it. There have been times in my career where I spotted issues from other teams on preview or staging servers and helped to fix it. Then I later got blamed (or dragged into…

> Don't propose solutions, that you will have to own (at least partly).

I find that if I propose anything at all ever I immediately become the responsible party for it and forced to own that no matter what it was. Which has lead to me not wanting to propose anything anymore. If I expose that we have a problem with X, I am then the one tasked with solving it no matter how much is already on my plate. So now I try not to see things that aren't going to immediately put us all out of a job.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#353

Post by WealthVsSurvive »

SubuSS wrote: post #247
sillysaurusx wrote: post #109

One thing that helped me is not to care so much about my employer's goals. It's almost heretical. But once you embrace this mindset, it does wonders. Or at least, it has for me so far. I think a lot of us want to be proud of the work we do, and we feel that if we slack off, then we shouldn't be proud. But it's the other way around. I think the slackers have it right. You're probably not going to get rich from working…

I know of so many folks in fang and my current job who’d disagree that you can’t get rich from a day job. Most of them got there by not being cynical about their employer’s goals and working with the team to make those happen. I guess I’ve been incredibly lucky and probably am in a nice west coast dream bubble, but my bubble vision means I definitely don’t buy that am a rare unicorn. I don’t think I would feel happy…

Have you considered that perhaps you're kept middle-to-low-upper-class not because you're special, but because you'll espouse these exact beliefs?

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#354

Post by OJFord »

mettamage wrote: post #331
throwaway9980 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early 40’s and I feel very lucky to have a job. I feel certain that once I hit 50 I’ll be unable to get hired. I think the trick is to make sure the job you have by 45 is somewhere that will be willing to keep you as you age.

Honestly, I'm thinking about how to convincingly lie about my age when I'm that age. It's part of the reason why I don't smoke and don't do much alcohol. And by the way, I hate lying. I know I can do it relatively well, but I almost never do it because I hate the ethical implications and the memory implications of it. The thing is though, when it comes to companies, they have warped things so much that I'm willing to…

There's two things, or their combination, that I find really confusing about ageism and it's apparent prevalence (I believe it, but no first-hand experience being in my 20s):

- 'nobody' stays at one company for decades or an entire career any more (perhaps in part because of the massive decline, at least in the UK, of defined-benefit pensions, so 'you' - employer - are not on the hook for that either), so the the 50yo just has potentially a lot more experience than the 30yo, and in reality no difference in how long they'll work there that's due to their ages

- it's widely known that this is the case, so there's surely a big under-tapped pool of older applicants, with fewer competing offers?

Honestly I think it'd be hard for me not to be ageist (if I were a hiring manager, and it weren't illegal to discriminate on the basis of certain 'protected characteristics' which include age) - I'd snap up that cheap experience!

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#355

Post by WealthVsSurvive »

jjulius wrote: post #195
sillysaurusx wrote: post #109

One thing that helped me is not to care so much about my employer's goals. It's almost heretical. But once you embrace this mindset, it does wonders. Or at least, it has for me so far. I think a lot of us want to be proud of the work we do, and we feel that if we slack off, then we shouldn't be proud. But it's the other way around. I think the slackers have it right. You're probably not going to get rich from working…

>You're probably not going to get rich from working a day job. You're replaceable, and if you left your job tomorrow then you'll soon be forgotten. This is true for the majority of software engineers. I'd honestly be replace "software engineers" with "all jobs"; your post is highly relevant to most fields.

Are the owners not also, extremely replaceable, moreso than the engineers? I think so.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#356

Post by VonBlue »

“I make lifestyle choices that do not involve a screen outside of work hours.” This is my line for the past 13 years to apologetically explain why I do not write code in my personal time. Why do people still rely on this as an indicator of passion, or dedication, or competence?

It is also my line to explain why I do not have work Slack or work email on my phone.

Even with all these safeguards in place, I still managed to have a crazy burnout from a project. Migraines and hypertension that eventually landed me in the ER and necessitated a month away from work to recover. This taught me that working a normal 40-45 hour week is not enough. Active self-care is necessary outside of those hours.

Tl;dr: Working less is not enough. What we do when we don’t work also matters.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#357

Post by lazybreather »

volfied wrote: post #20
MattGaiser wrote: post #5

One of the things which quickly overwhelms me is just all the little stuff. Couple big ticket items? No problem. Long list of 5-20 minute items, or even worse, conversations of indefinite length? Exhausting.

I work for a big company (F500), and one thing that always bothers me is the out of nowhere Slack messages that are three paragraphs long, by someone I have never met within the company. If I start helping them right away, they are happy to keep me online for the next hour while my flow is gone, god knows where. I am trying to find the nicest way to say: "This should be an e-mail conversation, please send email.", bu…

Work force from India here. There are a lot of companies where whatsapp works as a communication medium. Apart from email, slack etc. It is taken for granted that team is available on personal communication channels and can be bombarded with messages anytime of the day. Right now I am on about 6 work related whatsapp groups. And this is pretty pretty common that we don't even realize that it is a problem. For all the moaning about 'westernization of culture' I seriously wish they pick this one leaf to realize how the world outside is and how it would help personal lives.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#358

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

pivo wrote: post #351
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. Don't be "pro-active" be "re-active" - is my way of putting it. Frankly, most orgs will not reward pro-activity, in fact you can even be punished for it, since if a problem is not yet known by stakeholders then why are you solving it. There have been times in my career where I spotted issues from other teams on preview or staging servers and helped to fix it. Then I later got blamed (or dragged into…

> Don't be "pro-active" be "re-active" I moved from development to management a few years ago and as a manager I have to say my proactive developers are far more valuable to me. I recognise their value and I give them more interesting work and more financial rewards as a result. I also do everything I can to be sure that they're happy and not overworked because I'd hate to lose any of them.

I guess the financial rewards you can give them do not matter that much.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#359

Post by datavirtue »

pjmlp wrote: post #262
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the only purpose for a career is to "get rich". What other reason is there for a career? If there was no financial incentive for most, I highly doubt anybody would waste the time learning how to be a lawyer, programmer, or doctor. People don't just go into a career hoping to make a menial wage and work 40-60 hours a week.

Career is something imposed by companies where HR cannot phantom why people like to keep doing what they love, instead of being endless promoted until they aren't fit for the position.

Yeah, this dynamic is what causes me to avoid big companies. As soon as you hire on you get attacked with career goals, assumptions that you want to move up (I'm senior so I already make enough money and have no interest in "moving up"), and being asked to do the litany of things required to move up. Maddening. Especially when you tell several of your bosses directly that you are good and that you already have the position and money you want. It just doesn't register and they keep trying to get you to tick off the boxes that will get you promoted. Figured they would be happy that someone was happy for once and didn't need to maintain them as they strive for promotion. I realized that they string everyone along with promises of career profession. And more than just being strung along, it's mainly a distraction for you to focus on while they overwork you on projects that get cancelled or otherwise don't matter.

Re: I just don’t want to be busy anymore

#360

Post by OJFord »

Tomminn wrote: post #287
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #91

I have a friend who once told me that they can only work for about 4 hours a day. When I challenged them that this seemed like a very priviledged position to be able to take, they insisted that it was actually true for pretty much anyone, it's just that as a society, as an economy, as a series of employer/employee relationships, we pretend that it's not. What they meant of course was not whether they could be "at the…

This just straight up isn't true for blue collar and service work. I've worked those kinds of jobs with 12 hour shifts pretty recently, and you definitely Really Actually Literally Work 10+ hours of em'. It's kind of a buzz. I could still do it, 6 days a week, day-in day-out at 32, which was pleasantly surprising to me as someone who has always struggled to work a good 4 actual hours of white collar shift. Some jobs…

There's something in it though, I wonder if it's just as simple as how 'physical' it is - if you're sort of 'exercising', obviously anything manual labour is, but also walking around, reaching up to shelves, etc. then it's more continuously doable. Tired and hungry sure, but doable.

I couldn't keep my brain continually engaged in SE for even what would be a short 'shift' - but I reckon I could still do the >12h full days I did at the cinema as a teenager (plenty to do even while all screens are showing).

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