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United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

reuters.com

351–360 of 518 posts

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#351
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of things we could do to end the recovery. They won't happen because they are not in the best short term interest of the politicians making the decisions. Natural selection has weeded out the congressmen that make decisions contrary to their ability to raise campaign money. That is the root cause of the problem. Until that is solved, there's no point in dreaming up efficient solutions, because they won…

Exactly. The problem is corruption. Everything else is a symptom.

The problem is the voters, you get the politicians you deserve.

I don't think the american people are dumb or lazy, I think they are very complacent.

Americans have become so used to their fairly high standard of living that they are ignoring substantive issues and focusing on trivia.

My personal prediction is that the voters will wise up and listen to smart people who understand the issues eventually. At the moment though americans just see high gas prices and demand their government fix "the problem", they aren't interested in the challenging geo political, economic and social complexities.

How far amercia falls on the way to this correction is difficult to tell.

edit: just in case anyone thinks I am america bashing, the above applies to most of western europe as well.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#352
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're more liberal than conservative. I'm more conservative than liberal. Bless your heart, I agree with all of your points. At the end of the Cold War, other conservatives were making the same noises that you're making now. For their pains, their careers were destroyed by the people who run the current mainstream conservative movement. Let's take a look at those points of yours. Points 1 & 2. Cut defense spending a…

Thanks. I have no refutations to any of your comments. I know exactly what you mean. One interesting thing about your first statement, "At the end of the Cold War, other conservatives were making the same noises that you're making now". A few years ago I had the opportunity to hear Francis Fukuyama speak. He was the author of The End of History and a later follow up book. I never knew it before then, but he was one o…

> I also remember stories from my mom's family of 7 kids growing up poor in Rochester, NY in the post-war era. Perhaps I've inherited an attitude of bite-down and deal with reality from their history.

I have not much to add to your excellent comments, I just wanted to give you a heads-up. I grew up in a former Eastern-European country, and my childhood and teenage years were very much marked by the economic collapse of the post-communist years.

First, regarding the reducing of military spending by the US, I can still remember reading a very beautiful Soviet propaganda magazine in 1989 (with colored pictures and all) about how happy everyone was that the Soviet Army was getting out of Afghanistan and how about everyone will be happy. Then 1991 happened to them and the Soviets disintegrated under their own weight, in many cases leaving military units stranded in foreign territory because the money had just run out. I don't know what the moral of this story should be, maybe that it is never too early to cut military spending. You (the Americans) should do it now.

Second, I have nothing intelligent to say about your health-care system, but regarding Social Security I hope that you, the American people, will find a bunch of decent politicians willing to sacrifice their political careers over this. The reason being that when the money will run out (and at this rate it will definitely run out) no amount of blaming the other party or of accusing the Chinese or the Martians or whatever will make up for the fact that Government-run agencies will have no money to actual do their jobs (and no, inflation, i.e. indefinite printing of money will not help solve this, it will only make it worst). Again, I saw this happening in my country, ~20 years ago, social services going the way of the shitter and basically the entire Government-run infrastructure crumbling on its own weight. It wasn't funny at all.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#353
post #52

(Reference: http://www.federalbudget.com/ ) Steps to recovery: 1) End all offensive military actions overseas. Finish winding down Iraq and abandon Afghanistan wholesale. These actions have cost several trillion dollars over the last 10 years. We can't get that money back, but we can stop spending more. 2) Defense spending is in the top 3 highest budget expenditures. Cut it by 1 third across the board. Maintain impor…

2) I'm pretty sure Western Europe is fine with Russia without US intervention, thanks.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#354
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I have no refutations to any of your comments. I know exactly what you mean. One interesting thing about your first statement, "At the end of the Cold War, other conservatives were making the same noises that you're making now". A few years ago I had the opportunity to hear Francis Fukuyama speak. He was the author of The End of History and a later follow up book. I never knew it before then, but he was one o…

Those horrible evangelicals and ... some other conservatives. Fukuyama chose a safe target. (Or not. I didn't listen to the speech.) "Time magazine's Joe Klein has suggested it is legitimate to look at the religion of neoconservatives. He does not say there was a conspiracy but says there is a case to be made for disproportionate influence of Jewish neoconservative figures in US foreign policy, and that several of th…

Why do you feel the need to quote a Jewish author to support this? Just say it out loud: Our foreign policy is being manipulated by the Jews in favor of Israel thanks to their control of the US government.

When stated like this, it sounds like the crazy conspiracy theory that it is.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#355
post #52

(Reference: http://www.federalbudget.com/ ) Steps to recovery: 1) End all offensive military actions overseas. Finish winding down Iraq and abandon Afghanistan wholesale. These actions have cost several trillion dollars over the last 10 years. We can't get that money back, but we can stop spending more. 2) Defense spending is in the top 3 highest budget expenditures. Cut it by 1 third across the board. Maintain impor…

The only problem with slashing military spending and ending foreign interventions is that it has been just that spending, and those interventions, that have made the US the economic powerhouse it is today. The US has a history, stretching back well over a century, of launching military campaigns to support corporate interests. Be it South America, the Middle East, or Asia, the US has invaded countries and toppled gov…

"The US is rich for the same reason Rome, England, and Spain were"

Not really, have you been in England, Rome or Spain?

Rome legionaries were used to make roads and bridges and mining 90%of their time. If I show you the extensions of the land they "washed" to get mineral you won't believe it(you can see it using google earth, e.g in the north of spain, look for grooves around mountains).

England made itself rich because of commerce, like Spain(they took the risk to travel the ocean and won the first mover advantage, and when the rest of the world notice, it was late for them). That was what made them rich, not the military.

The US is rich because... IT IS RICH. It is a huge place with huge resources for a small population.

The US became the more powerful country on earth because Japan and Europe totally destroyed itself by the military in the WWII. The US waited for them to auto destroy, and then entered the world and finished it with all their cities untouched, 90% of the world gold reserves and creditor to them all, being able to force the dollar as world currency and english the official language of aviation, and naval commerce. Every body lost their colonies and US got them all(they just wanted the commerce and influence without having to build roads like English or Portuguese did in Africa).

Yes, it was a coincidence(being far away), no, US was not the most prosperous nation on Earth 200 years ago. If you believe in that, please study some real history. US was not the technical leader that is today thanks to all the Europeans that went there thanks to Hitler(militarization and economic totalitarism), the Edisons, the von Brauns and von Newmans.

Thomas Jefferson and other of the US founding fathers thought a permanent military and central banking would ruin the country because military people do nothing while things work at it should they need to create new enemies so they can justify their existence.

I had family members that were in Soviet Russia when something like 95% engineers were used in the war industry, while people needed cars, washing and sewer machines. This was not wealth for Russia, that was a bully inside. Mass media brainwashed them all them about how cool they were being able to destroy anybody else.(This strange pride remains today)

Today 60% of the engineering in US goes to war efforts, 50% of all their money to the military, so they can kill better, while the rest of the world expends significantly less.

They will talk about GPS, but the question is if this money expended in real economy would be able to create as much as the military does?

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#356
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>85% of the $14 Trillion deficit over the past 3 years was not any items you described but these items: -TARP TARP was $300B, of which the government will recover all but $25B, according to the CBO. The "bailout" in general (considering all acts that fall under that umbrella term) consisted of about $3.5T in payouts, the vast majority of which is expected to be recouped. Also, you're confusing debt with deficit. The…

>> The debt is $14T, the deficit is just over a billion The US budget deficit is far more than $1 billion. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-10/u-s-had-record-222-...

I meant trillion.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#357
post #326
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they get ousted? Surely you'd vote for them?

Not enough people would though. They would flock to the other candidate that would inevitably reassure them that everything was going to be ok. Heaven forbid that people should vote by thinking about the issues rather than just digestion a handful of sound-bites.

Well why don't you educate other voters on this issue? Knock on doors and canvass, even just print up flyers and push them through letterboxes.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#358
post #28
post #20

This illustrates one of the risks of hostage-taking and the mistaken assumption of Republican leadership that the "hostage" (their words, not mine) wouldn't be harmed see quote from Senate minority leader below From http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-debt-deal-the-triu... But at the Capitol, behind the four doors and the three receptionists and the police guard, McConnell said he could imagine doing this again…

The question is whether you believe the issue would have become an issue even if the Republicans hadn't raised it now. Many people look at this as an intervention; if the US is addicted to oil, we are even more addicted to borrowing. I suppose it really comes down to whether you find multiplier/countercyclical spending arguments persuasive or not; Nobel Laureates come down on both sides.

The Republicans raising the issue was good and healthy for us. The clusterfuck that emerged in the months afterwards because of them refusing to pass any bill that didn't fall neatly into their little new imaginary rules was the problem.

Re: United States loses AAA credit rating from S&P

#360
post #75
post #52

(Reference: http://www.federalbudget.com/ ) Steps to recovery: 1) End all offensive military actions overseas. Finish winding down Iraq and abandon Afghanistan wholesale. These actions have cost several trillion dollars over the last 10 years. We can't get that money back, but we can stop spending more. 2) Defense spending is in the top 3 highest budget expenditures. Cut it by 1 third across the board. Maintain impor…

One thing to note, I think the strength of our currency is at least partly based on the large amount of military power behind it, and the promise of stability that it brings. Basically, it went from being backed by gold to being backed by power and promise of restraint in printing more. I guess we've largely given up on the restraint side, though.

Quite a few fallen empires have made that error of judgement. I believe it hails from a time when the military could be used to make occupied peoples pay taxes. Nowadays, a military that is much bigger than what is needed for defense suffers from diminishing returns in terms of backing the currency with a safety net.

The military is not going to force the Fed to stop printing money.

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