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Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

revolt.chat

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Re: Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP, but Discord user too. UX matters. People are very sensitive to the context of features, what the subtle meaning of using them is, how we initiate the communication and how it all "feels" like, for lack of a better word. Kind of like there is no difference between (s)ftp and dropbox, and yet there is.

Ok but just for me as an observer, it's not clear what the actual UX difference here is. The discussion seems to suggest that the actual capability of the UX is in fact worse in Discord, and maybe not worth copying exactly if it causes a feature regression. It would help to specify exactly what you would like changed around, i.e. if there is a button that could change to make it more clear what is happening when you…

The difference is that the discord UI conveys information that is strictly missing in other UIs. By having a separate voice channel, it's implicitly broadcasting "these people want to talk".

It's also broadcasting who -is- talking; I've very frequently made a binary choice of "do intrude" versus "don't intrude" based on who's actually talking. I know based on the social circles that if person A and B are talking, they're likely "talking shop", because person A commissions work from person B. But I also know that if it's person A and C, they're probably just gaming, and I'm welcome to join them.

This implicit social signaling is obscenely important. It's a make or break feature.

When I'm using slack, by comparison; I can see that a coworker is in "some mysterious voice call" but I have absolutely NO IDEA who they're calling, and whether I'm welcome to join. I have to openly intrude on their time, and ask that explicitly, and that's inherently rude. I'm able to do that with close friends because I have a huge buffer of goodwill, but interrupting people is always inherently rude.

Discord gives you a way to get this information without being rude.

If the only way to do it is to be rude, then - here's the kicker: It introduces an outright failure state! Quite a few people will actually decided "gosh, I don't feel comfortable interrupting this person I barely know, I'm just not going to." They literally DON'T make a call they otherwise would make, and it's 100% down to UX. It's a full on, binary, "failure to provide service", and it's because of how your software psychologically runs on the people using it.

There are two computers running your software, not one. One of them is electronic, but the other one is biological. UX is about that second wetware system; some of it is calculable, consistent stuff that holds true for a statistical majority of people - just like how certain optimizations will benefit a "consistent majority" of the electronic computers running your software.

Re: Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

#352
post #84

I hate the name personally. I would not feel comfortable asking a normal person (or, now that I think about it, even someone tech-savvy and privacy conscious) “hey come and join my Revolt server”. At best, it sounds like I’d be inviting them to play some online game.

I am surprised nobody in this comments section has mentioned "Re-Volt" (1999) yet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-Volt

Re: Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

#353
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the UI is very subtly different to Discord? I use Discord and Element/Matrix exclusively, and have groups of friends that use both. They always gravitate towards Discord for voice. I think there's a couple small reasons that kind of add up 1. When there's an active call going, you can't see who's in it unless you join. It's just this ominous box with some unknown number of participants, and it creates this feeling…

Those all seem like things that could be fixed at a lower cost than creating a whole new app, but maybe there is some technical reason I'm not familiar with

I think the problem is that Matrix has a different scope than being a Discord alternative. It's a protocol and designed to do more complex things like creating federated networks or bridging IRC networks, etc.

Re: Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

#354
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but just for me as an observer, it's not clear what the actual UX difference here is. The discussion seems to suggest that the actual capability of the UX is in fact worse in Discord, and maybe not worth copying exactly if it causes a feature regression. It would help to specify exactly what you would like changed around, i.e. if there is a button that could change to make it more clear what is happening when you…

The difference is that the discord UI conveys information that is strictly missing in other UIs. By having a separate voice channel, it's implicitly broadcasting "these people want to talk". It's also broadcasting who -is- talking; I've very frequently made a binary choice of "do intrude" versus "don't intrude" based on who's actually talking. I know based on the social circles that if person A and B are talking, the…

> By having a separate voice channel, it's implicitly broadcasting "these people want to talk".

Is that significantly different from making a new channel and labeling it "voice channel"? To me it doesn't seem to be, but I haven't tried it.

>It's also broadcasting who -is- talking

That sounds like a legitimate feature request, if it's not in the issue tracker already?

On the rest of your comment: thank you for the context, it was an interesting read, but I think I got what you meant with the first three sentences... maybe edit out some of that that if you file a github issue :)

Re: Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

#355
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a Rust only problem? Decided to pick the most well known Go project, kubernetes, and the Go version (1.15) included in Debian 11 is too old to build the first kubernetes project in my search results, kubernetes client as it requires go 1.16, released february. I've certainly had issues with e.g. the Python or Node version being too outdated on Ubuntu, RHEL, CentOS etc. And when that happens, it's a bigger pro…

It is a rust dev cultural problem that will go away with time and general adoption. Right now almost all people writing in rust are the bleeding edge types that use the latest backwards incompatible features without caring. Combined with these new features being added every couple of months it is almost required to use insecure rustc installation from outside your repos no matter the distro. Bash actually gets new, b…

> It is a rust dev cultural problem that will go away with time and general adoption. Right now almost all people writing in rust are the bleeding edge types that use the latest backwards incompatible features without caring. Combined with these new features being added every couple of months it is almost required to use insecure rustc installation from outside your repos no matter the distro.

And yet at the same time the people working this way are pushing their changes out in a way that affects the rest of the world looking for stable repeatable systems.

There was a brief few weeks at the beginning of this year where pyca/cryptography had a hard dependency on a rust compiler being on the local system. pyca/cryptography is a dependency of a large number of important applications, notably Ansible.

You're fucking up my automation if you're expecting me to `curl | sh` in my build pipelines. pyca/cryptography's maintainers were completely not understanding of the situation and derided anyone who criticized them for it along with statements like "I refuse to work in C++." Zero concern from them about breaking the world for lots of people.

Re: Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the point is: why ? Why yet-another messaging protocol? If they wanted to have a different client (which I totally understand, given that Element client is currently just a poor mix of all of Slack and Whatsapp and Discord), they could just focus on the client.

I dunno, maybe it's easier for them than to implement quite a large existing spec, or they just wanted to.

> easier (...) to implement quite a large existing spec

They don't have to implement all of the spec themselves. Nothing stopping them to leverage the existing base libraries and SDKs to build the functionality for the client.

> or they just wanted to.

Well, ok, but when I see such a strong manifestation of NIH syndrome it really reflects poorly on the project.

Re: Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in their FAQ[0] as well. But seems to boil down to because they wanted it. And there's nothing wrong with that. [0]: https://developers.revolt.chat/faq/why_new

That is some of the weakest reasoning I've ever read, but... I guess I can't stop them.

It doesn't need to be a success for them to learn from the experience.

Re: Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

#358
Discord flagged my account with my main email immediately after registration. Temp email works fine. Support replies with unhelpful canned responses and contacting them didn’t solve my problem. All this is one more reason why an open source alternative is needed and why this is good news.

Re: Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

#359
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had to do it all over again, would you still start with MongoDB or would you go with Cassandra right off the bat?

I didn't make the original decision but if I were starting something and I had no idea whether or not it'd be successful, I'd do whatever was the absolute fastest way to get to MVP. That'd probably be a cloud database, honestly -- but a modern MongoDB would be technically fine too (licensing stuff notwithstanding.) Most startups fail not because they picked a suboptimal database for their usage but because they didn'…

Really appreciate this great, detailed answer! 100% agree with getting to an MVP with PMF as quickly as possible should be the top priority for a startup.

Re: Revolt: Open-source alternative to Discord

#360
post #94
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, only the backend is written in Rust. The desktop client is an Electron app: https://github.com/revoltchat/desktop

Now I want to know if HN hates Electron more than it loves Rust. Or do they perfectly cancel out?

The only Electron apps I use, are doing work time as I have no say in what either employer or customer require me to use.

My private computers they are mostly Electron free as far as I can tell, and yes I even pay for Sublime Text.

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