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Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

nltimes.nl

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Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#351

Post by Filligree »

einpoklum wrote: post #348
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why the amen is applicable to Dutch cities. I'll take the local perspective from Amsterdam as an example, but it applies more broadly to the other cities as well here. Regarding point 1: There's no real issues with long-term vacancies (the municipality already has laws in-place which fine owners of vacant homes), typically sits between 1 and 2%. That should obviously go down to 0 as much as possible, but it'…

> If buy-to-let is banned, rental supply drops This seems to contradict your earlier claim that: > the municipality already has laws in-place which fine owners of vacant homes

A house which is being rented isn’t vacant.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#352

Post by kingludite »

Yaa101 wrote: post #231
rusteh1 wrote: post #165

I don't understand how this would work. How do people rent? Obviously many people can't or do not wish to own their house for any number of reasons. Who will own houses that are rented? I used to live in Amsterdam as an expat, and rented from a landlord who owned several homes in Amsterdam. Would she not be able to own and rent these homes under this scheme? The social housing system seemed to be abused when I was th…

We had housing cooperation's for a century until they were forced by consecutive right wing governments to sell their houses, and thus ruining a system that was well working, except for rich friends of the right wing government to speculate with the housing system, which is taking place now.

And before that we had woningbouw verenigingen. Non profits ran by their tenants. Something like: God fearing church goers wouldn't stand for hard working newly wed couples not getting a home.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#353

Post by MomoXenosaga »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #320
dmje wrote: post #25

Amen to this. Two case studies from the UK I've been thinking about recently: 1) Visiting London and spending time in South Kensington - walking back to hotel at night, only about 30% of houses had any lights on. Suggestion is the others are effectively uninhabited, and a search on RightMove shows properties sell for £20-£30m for a 4/5 bed. This isn't normal Londoners, it's outside investment. 2) Cornwall, where I li…

Not sure why the amen is applicable to Dutch cities. I'll take the local perspective from Amsterdam as an example, but it applies more broadly to the other cities as well here. Regarding point 1: There's no real issues with long-term vacancies (the municipality already has laws in-place which fine owners of vacant homes), typically sits between 1 and 2%. That should obviously go down to 0 as much as possible, but it'…

The Netherlands is just too rich that it is working against itself. We have created a society where every person wants their own house- 17 million people 10 million houses. And the Netherlands is a magnet for migrants- compared to most of the world the streets are paved with gold.

And no matter how much the prices go up people can and will pay. Unless there's a mayor economic recession things will not get better.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#354

Post by einpoklum »

ponow wrote: post #289
winkelwagen wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are special rules for that specific scenarios. As long if you don’t live in the Netherlands yourself and it is the only property you own

Markets don't need exceptions, they adapt. With property/price/rent controls, it comes down to a committee of "experts" or it becomes effectively closer to community property with the tragedy of the commons. IMO, reduce the restrictions on new development and creative use, e.g., by cutting back on zoning to allow higher density development and reduce the ability of neighbors to stop development of neighbor properties…

"Adapt"? They've "adapted" by milking Amsterdam tenants dry for many years already.

And the "tragedy of the commons" is essentially a red-Herring fallacy. It is perhaps valid at the most in a free-for-all rather than a commons. Where you have a commons, you have relations between the users of the common resources, and social structures for decision making about sharing and use, which prevent depletion of resources.

See also:

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-ed...

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#355

Post by [deleted] »

bushbaba wrote: post #317
heresie-dabord wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages have been stagnant for decades while the cost of living has increased... and now housing has become a privilege . Yes, there are "rich foreigners" and some corporations are strategically acquiring the places and spaces where high rent can be extracted. But what has driven housing cost in the market of individual homes is simply that some citizens can afford to borrow at low rates, and other citizens are seizing…

The governments are to blame. If conventional mortgages were capped to 1 per person. And a minimum of 80% ltv was required. Then houses would be cheaper. Instead the government is letting people put low money down, low interest rates, and buy up many houses at once. That of course inflated housing costs.

[deleted]

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#356

Post by llampx »

emodendroket wrote: post #281
aikinai wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think those small business owners are packing away substantial profits they could use to pay staff significantly more?

If a business can only exist by having serfs it wildly underpays then maybe it deserves to lose out to the big chains.

Big chains aren't exactly known for treating unskilled workers with kids gloves. Amazon comes to mind, as does Walmart.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#357

Post by lotsofpulp »

II2II wrote: post #258
cutler wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market investment, ie. where little new value is added, is gambling dressed up to look respectable. It's all about getting something for nothing which is the root cause of all our economic ills.

I try to be careful with how I think about these things, so I don't go off the deep end. In my mind, investment is the adding of value while trading does not add value. Both are gambling on the outcome, but investment tries to direct the outcome while trading tries to predict the outcome. In the context of housing, investment may look like a renovation to improve desirability or replacing a small number of units with…

>I don't know how you would create a system of investment that doesn't create an environment for speculative trading.

Remove the government subsidies and guarantees and improve price transparency.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#358

Post by samsonradu »

joelbluminator wrote: post #331
Freak_NL wrote: post #190

This is desperately needed. And not just in the major cities; this is happening in every Dutch town. Amsterdam may have prices beyond absurd, but the whole nation is burdened by this problem. In the street I live in the capital of the northern province of Fryslân (Frisia) most homes are owned by their inhabitants, but in the past few years we've seen several houses being bought by small-time investors (who already ow…

When I was living in NL I knew a guy who had a mortgage for a house in Australia, a mortgage on a house in Groningen and then he was looking to get another mortgage for a house in Den Haag. Banks don't seem to cooperate internationally or even nationally; he never told the banks he has mortgages already.

You’re right, banks don’t cooperate internationally in this area, but it cuts both ways no?

How can one get a mortgage in Holland without being a resident/having income declared there? The bank will not loan a foreign resident in those circumstances. Did he pay taxes in all those countries?

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#359

Post by ClumsyPilot »

ipaddr wrote: post #336
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your solution is the problem. The house prices are a blood-sucking squid, and you are pay for them every time you get a coffee or get any service - half the money is going to the labdowner that contributes nothing to the economy. That's why a coffee costs £5 and a plumber charges £100 an hour But we have fools that celebrate rising house prices because their nominal net worth went up

If prices were going down would things be better? You bought a 500,000 and in ten years it will be worth 100,000 would you still make that investment? Everyone wants prices to remain the same forever. That takes a neutral population growth or more supply

Certainly yes, it would be better - the value of a car goes down, do you still make an 'investment'? No, you buy a car if you need a car, we don't call buying a car 'investment', we don't encourage people to hoard cars they don't need, it contributes nothing to the economy.

The optimal situation is for cars and houses to be as cheap as possible relative to earnings, that's what we call economic growth and improved quality of life.

Re: Dutch cities want to ban property investors in all neighborhoods

#360

Post by nathanvanfleet »

I have thought about San Francisco. It really does feel like this whole city is empty. No stores stay in business, no one seems to be walking around these neighborhoods. I have considered if you can fly around with a plane at night and use something like heat vision to determine who is home?Because I think the stats are just not correct for SF
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