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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#351

Post by bananabiscuit »

silicon2401 wrote: post #338
mlang23 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does this technique change anything? You are still assuming the supposed superior position, since you imply that the stance of your discussion partner is wrong and needs to be changed. Dont you see how patronising this is?

This kind of fragility is hostile to rational discussions. There's no patronisation to asking somebody a question about their beliefs; it's literally just a question. If somebody asked me that, I would take it as an opportunity to really explore my beliefs, and think about what conditions would cause me to change my beliefs. It has nothing to do with the other person or their beliefs. We shouldn't encourage this kind…

In my experience, the intent of people asking me why I don’t want to vaccinate is almost never to really understand my perspective and my reasons for not doing so. Instead the goal is usually to find the first statement I make that they feel they can easily attack (ignoring all other reasons I state), and then attack that statement and conclude that I am a conspiracy theorist antivaxxer.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#352

Post by learc83 »

cies wrote: post #315
menduza23 wrote: post #186

Often people use the argument that this vaccine was really rushed and there could potentially be side effects to such a rushed vaccine. There is one example of this actually happening. Have a look at what happened with the pandermix vaccine: narcolepsy.org.uk/blog/important-ruling-pandemrix-case https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/20/swine-flu-vacc...

It's stories like this --gov't makes out of court settlements and vaccine retracted-- that give a lot of credibility to those against/ hesitant towards vaccination. I'm in a low-risk group and see no use in getting vaccinated, especially since herd immunity is off the table and nearby ICUs are not overflowing. The media/pharma/politicians/bigtech are all passing out the same message: get the vaccine. Non of them high…

You might want to reevaluate your definition of low risk thanks to the delta variant.

My wife is a pediatric ER doctor (but because the adult ER is so swamped with COVID patients they're now seeing all patients up to 25), during the first few waves of COVID, she saw almost no severe cases in children and young adults. There were plenty of kids who came in with COVID, but she didn't admit a single otherwise healthy kid or young adult because of COVID.

In the last week, she's admitted 3 17 year olds to the PICU, and they've admitted many more than that to the floor for treatment.

>It's stories like this --gov't makes out of court settlements and vaccine retracted-- that give a lot of credibility to those against/ hesitant towards vaccination.

We have now administered billions of doses of MRNA vaccines. The safety profiles are more well known than a large percentage of drugs on the market that most people would take without a moment's hesitation.

Historically vaccines have been taken off the market b/c of issues that were too uncommon to show up in trials, which consist of only a few thousand or tens of thousands of people. The side effects were so rare that they only showed up once millions of people started taking them.

There has never been a vaccine that was pulled off the market for a side effect that took a year to show up.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#353

Post by jeffbee »

acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

Fox News ran with the “it’s rushed” story just now.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#354

Post by hendersoon »

admissionsguy wrote: post #343
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

> what would it take for you to change your mind?" In general terms, I would need the society at large to get off the moral high horse and engage in an honest cost/benefit analysis of all covid measures. Isn't it hypocritical that people accuse the young not taking the vaccine of being selfish, while hoarding the vaccines away from vulnerable people in poorer parts of the world?

Yes, that is absolutely hypocritical and we should continue to pressure the western world to distribute more vaccine globally before giving booster shots to their own citizens.

That said, I'm absolutely getting _my_ booster as soon as I'm eligible. That isn't hypocritical; at that point the decision was made and if I don't take the booster it won't be sent to sub-Saharan Africa.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#355

Post by odessacubbage »

orangegreen wrote: post #308
thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

It's not really about you. It's about preventing other, more vulnerable people from getting sick. Living in a society means giving up some of your freedoms in exchange for security, and getting vaccinated as a way to help other people should be part of that exchange.

should the government prescreen all potential romantic partners to stop these vulnerable populations from contracting hepatitis or chlamydia? surely sexual freedom and bodily autonomy can be put on the bench if more people can be kept safe without them

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#356

Post by frankfrankfrank »

acdha wrote: post #196
peakaboo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right. People won't change their minds about it. But the question is, should they be allowed to control what goes inside their bodies? In my opinion, the answer is a huge YES OF COURSE.

The problem is that it’s not that simple because your choices significantly impact other people: I can’t choose whether or not to receive the viruses you spread, so I have an interest in you spreading far fewer of them. My 4 year old child can’t be vaccinated so he, along with many immune-compromised people or those with certain medical conditions, is dependent on other people getting vaccinated to sharply reduce spr…

Your mindset is deeply concerning and rather evil in its supremacist belief you are justified in imposing things on others against their will.

You may believe you are justified in that imposition, as all authoritarian types are, but one thing is for sure, the precedent to overturn the most fundamental concepts of freedom you demand be imposed on all, WILL be used against the useful idiots in short order, as is always the case when they have outlived their usefulness, having been manipulated by fear and promise, sticks and carrots.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#357

Post by zacharycohn »

acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

As a friend said, "Happy Move-the-Goalposts Day!"

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#358

Post by zacharytelschow »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #324
thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

> imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities would have burned over it. I don't like "Imagine x doing y" arguments because it makes us insert our own biases on a hypothetical scenario that isn't the current reality.

That hypothetical scenario is current reality for just under half the country.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#359

Post by briffle »

valenterry wrote: post #331
lern_too_spel wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No vaccine has ever had a long term effect that isn't visible soon after it is administered. Vaccines are one and done and eliminate quickly from the body, unlike other medications, which can be administered daily or weekly for years and can accumulate in organs. https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resources/be-healthy/item/9544-... "This is particularly true of the mRNA vaccines. mRNA degrades incredibly rapidly. You would…

How about the cases of narcolepsy that were caused by the swine-flu vaccine Pandremix? As far as I understand it took around 2 years before it was officially stated that the vaccine was/is the cause for these cases. Until 2015 the numbers grew even higher because of the delay between vaccination and the first symptoms. I wouldn't really call that "soon after it is administered". And the same is also true for covid's…

I have never heard of that, can you share a link? I would like to read more.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#360

Post by newbamboo »

moolcool wrote: post #76
newbamboo wrote: post #68

Without an FDA commissioner this is worse than not approving as far as I’m concerned. Seriously, this is -1 for me.

Why?

Because given the press announcement last week about the acting commissioner (the administration says she is unfit to nominate) it’s clear they’re setting her up as a scapegoat. That conveys, to me, an administration without foresight or ethics. Scapegoats that are obvious are not good scapegoats.

Doing nothing could have been chalked up to typical sclerotic political mechanizations we’ve all come to expect.

They could have, instead, put out a few tidbits in friendly media outlets about how easy it is to get a booster: you go to cvs and tell them you are unvaxxed. Run stories about how “everyone is doing it(tm)”. That’s a better way to stimulate demand IMO. Fewer long term consequences like permanent distrust of all vaccines, the administration and the fda.

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