1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults • Hacker News Board

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#351

Post by kup0 » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:39 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #245

sngz wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electron done right that is a very low bar. VS code is still slow and eats up a ton of resources. not to mention I don't trust anything from microsoft. OP said electron = bad and you should be ashamed of using it because its helping propagate it's usage when its a cancer.

Yeah, sure, ok. Electron is a tool. It can be used well. It can be used poorly. Any tool shares the same issues. I can write a shit native app and I can write a shit Electron app. All Electron does is lower the barrier of entry to making an app and making it work cross-platform.

The problem is even the best examples of Electron apps aren't great and use far more resources than a native counterpart would.

VS Code is an example of Electron being "used well". I still find myself using other apps because they're more responsive. That tells me that Electron is inherently making the app experience worse, despite being used well

I understand the 'why' of electron, I am just not happy with the results at all.

Though maybe the world is better if that barrier of entry isn't lowered, I'm not sure what's better- a shitty app available everywhere or a good app available only on a couple of platforms...

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#352

Post by jl_agilebits » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:43 PM UTC

dak1 wrote: post #296

jl_agilebits wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi. I'm a feature developer for 1Password, and I want to clarify a few things. First of all, our decision to built the macOS app in Electron was absolutely not driven by VC money. For the past few years, we've been working on consolidating 1Password's business logic into a single Rust-powered core that could be shared across all our apps. This has many advantages: feature consistency across platforms, faster developm…

But how can you justify removing the ability to have a local vault? Why would anyone think for a second that it would be a good idea to force people to store every password for everything in their life in your cloud without an opt out? That, even more than Electron and the subscription model (both which do bother me), is an absolutely deal breaker. I've paid for every version of 1Password since v3 in 2009, but I'm do…

The original article goes into great detail as to why we're moving away from local vaults.

That being said, we are looking into gauging user interest in self-hosting. Please take a look at our survey [1] if you want to share your thoughts. Hope that helps!

[1] https://survey.1password.com/self-host/

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#353

Post by robbiep » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

jl_agilebits wrote: post #338

evgen wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron is a pile of shit and _every_ Electron app I am forced to use should be a source of continuous shame for any dev who actually worked on it. This has nothing to do with improving features or service and is completely about increasing revenue and improving the sort of numbers investors like to see -- driven entirely by the fact that AgileBits has recently closed a B round and needs to show more revenue to just…

I'm a feature developer for 1Password, and I want to clarify a few things. I've posted this already in another thread, but there seems to be some misinformation being spread that our technical decisions are being driven by VC funding. Our decision to built the macOS app in Electron was absolutely not driven by VC money. For the past few years, we've been working on consolidating 1Password's business logic into a sing…

That’s reasonable logic but for me with a company subscription and previously having been an individual purchaser with my backup in iCloud rather than on 1 pass servers, it doesn’t really tilt the balance - I also hate electron with a passion and will be looking to stay on 7 for as long as possible with a high likelihood of shifting to a different provider due to the forced shift to cloud storage after this.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#354

Post by robbiep » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

mirkules wrote: post #316

brianpan wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What ongoing development does a password manager have? I shutter to think about just trying to keep the status quo across all those platforms, devices, browser extensions. How often do we have new versions of iOS or macOS? What about Windows, Android, Linux, Chrome OS? I can think of a TON of work without adding a single feature.

Major releases of MacOS and iOS happen once a year. And most of the time they don’t break existing applications (iOS 12 notwithstanding). Almost everything from early iPhone OS to 12, and from 12 onwards worked ok, even with major resolution changes. And the fact that we need to constantly change stuff just for the sake of change is the problem. To add to this: I’m perfectly happy to pay a premium price for software…

There are also what I think are reasonable models for providing people with ownership of an app but also being able to charge upgrade fees (for example, TablePlus, Dash, Sublime etc)

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#355

Post by xanaxagoras » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:46 PM UTC

The hits just keep coming. First I have to move off the apple ecosystem, now I have to move off of 1password.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#356

Post by jl_agilebits » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:48 PM UTC

maxharris wrote: post #7

1Password used to be native on the Mac, and now it's an Electron app. I'm not going to be using 1Password for this reason, and I encourage you to do the same. Subscription business models and non-native apps are hallmarks of rot by VCs. Dump them!

Hi. I'm a feature developer for 1Password, and I want to clarify a few things. I've already posted this elsewhere, but I've seen multiple threads spreading misinformation that our technical decisions are being driven by VC funding. This could not be farther from the truth. We have been working on these changes long before we received any form of outside investments.

Over the past few years, we've been working on consolidating 1Password's business logic into a single Rust-powered core that could be shared across all our apps. This has many advantages: feature consistency across platforms, faster development cycles, and better security. When building the front-end for the desktop platforms that would take advantage of this new core, Electron suited us perfectly, since we could write our UI code once and make it consistent across Linux, Windows, and Mac. We actually did build a native Mac app initially alongside the cross-platform Electron app, but we eventually decided that having two separate versions of the macOS app (one in Electron, one in SwiftUI) would cause a lot of needless development churn and hassle for both customers and our support team.

I can understand your frustrations about Electron and our subscription-based model, but I hope you find my explanation reasonable. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#357

Post by reissbaker » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #152

FreezerburnV wrote: post #50

I guess I’m the outlier in being very happy with 1Password and fine with paying for the subscription service. Not only is 1Password the best password manager I’ve used, but it makes it seamless to share stuff with my wife. I don’t care if 8 is an Electron app either, considering I usually interact with it via the browser anyway with their extension. (Also I know that the majority of what they wrote for it is Rust and…

I come at it from a slightly different angle. I got in when it was syncing via Dropbox and iCloud, and it worked perfectly fine. The switch to a subscription service is a forced downgrade for me; it's putting functionality I already have behind a subscription. This is particularly an issue since the old versions (versions I paid for, mind you) are slowly going away (typically as a recompilation and submission is requ…

Same story for me. I switched to the KeePassXC ecosystem eventually as a result — it's open source, has compatible clients for just about everything, and has one-click import for 1Password vaults.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#358

Post by xanaxagoras » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

KronisLV wrote: post #346

rootusrootus wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially when the product fits into $0 software so $4.99 is infinitely higher than $0. What is the competition that costs $0? Bitwarden is $3.33/mo for equivalent functionality to the $4.99/mo plan from 1Password.

KeePass ( https://keepass.info/ ) with something like Nextcloud ( https://nextcloud.com/ ) or any other solution for syncing password databases across devices. Let's Encrypt SSL/TLS certificates are free, as is Apache/Nginx/Caddy to reverse proxy Nextcloud or any other solution (if a web based interface is needed). You might also need something like ngrok ( https://ngrok.com/ ) for publically accessing the instance i…

Recently set up something similar. DNS entry that resolves to a local ip, swag + letsencrypt reverse proxying to Nextcloud, all setup as containers and accessible anywhere over WireGuard. I'm pretty happy with it.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#359

Post by Mindwipe » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

jl_agilebits wrote: post #356

maxharris wrote: post #7

1Password used to be native on the Mac, and now it's an Electron app. I'm not going to be using 1Password for this reason, and I encourage you to do the same. Subscription business models and non-native apps are hallmarks of rot by VCs. Dump them!

Hi. I'm a feature developer for 1Password, and I want to clarify a few things. I've already posted this elsewhere, but I've seen multiple threads spreading misinformation that our technical decisions are being driven by VC funding. This could not be farther from the truth. We have been working on these changes long before we received any form of outside investments. Over the past few years, we've been working on cons…

> I've already posted this elsewhere, but I'm seeing some misinformation that our technical decisions are being driven by VC funding. This could not be farther from the truth. We have been working on these changes long before we received any form of outside investments.

That's worse, not better.

At least being forced to by investors makes sense. The current direction of travel being voluntary means you've just got a bad nose for building security.

Re: 1Password 8 will be subscription only and won’t support local vaults

#360

Post by lycopodiopsida » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

xondono wrote: post #326

craigc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually a sensitive product is exactly where this does NOT make sense. No matter how good their security is with their cloud version it will still be less secure than having a vault locally on your disk. That is a fact. Subscription services to me are only justified if they are providing a SERVICE which they are with the web version and ability to sync through their own servers, however, using a local version with y…

> Actually a sensitive product is exactly where this does NOT make sense. The idea that anyone except a tiny infinitesimal minority of all people should self host is ridiculous. Even a lot of people with IT jobs have not enough time or knowledge to keep services like this working securely in a way that’s competitive with SaaS (i.e. these people are better served by paying others to do the job). If you need any proof,…

But it was never about self-hosting: a local vault can be synced between devices on the same network - all you have to do is to open 1PW on both of them. Everyone can manage it.