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Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

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Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#351

Post by Marvin_Martian »

lhorie wrote: post #349
Marvin_Martian wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This opinion is comparable to saying: "Depression is not real, everybody gets sad sometimes" or "ADHD is not real everybody gets distracted sometimes". Just because some attribute exists in normal doses in most people, does not mean that it can exist in debilitating doses in a minority. Of course, a big difference between imposter syndrome and the aforementioned illnesses is that imposter syndrome is not in the DSM-5…

I'm not aware of impostor syndrome being considered anywhere on the same level as actually diagnosed depression/ADHD by physicians, nor of it being considered for addition into the DSM, slow and bureaucratic as it may be. The variety I'm referring to is the one that comes from people like the one I originally responded to, who, by all accounts, is a successful functioning member of society. So, yeah, I think it's fai…

If by "this whole thing about imposter syndrome" you are referring to people talking about imposter syndrome the way your parent comment talked about it, than yeah I agree completly: its just a humble brag, nothing else.

I originally understood your comment to mean impostor syndrome is never used in a valid way. I have seen these statements being made about mental health disorders, including very serious once like depression. I think they can be really damaging, since they convince people not to seek help. This is why I disagreed.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#352

Post by labster »

stavros wrote: post #336
labster wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went ahead and did the experiment: I felt like I was contributing nothing of value at my last job after seven years and just slowed things down, so I ended up giving 5 weeks notice. My employer agreed I was useless and decided to turn that into 9 days notice. The result: they are even further behind than they were with me, and occasionally people still contact me from the old company for tech advice. I guess it was…

> My employer agreed I was useless and decided to turn that into 9 days notice. Did they say you were useless and changed the notice to 9 days, or are you inferring the former from the latter?

Inference. My direct supervisor tried very hard to keep me but the CTO could not be convinced.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#353

Post by lhorie »

Marvin_Martian wrote: post #351
lhorie wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not aware of impostor syndrome being considered anywhere on the same level as actually diagnosed depression/ADHD by physicians, nor of it being considered for addition into the DSM, slow and bureaucratic as it may be. The variety I'm referring to is the one that comes from people like the one I originally responded to, who, by all accounts, is a successful functioning member of society. So, yeah, I think it's fai…

If by "this whole thing about imposter syndrome" you are referring to people talking about imposter syndrome the way your parent comment talked about it, than yeah I agree completly: its just a humble brag, nothing else. I originally understood your comment to mean impostor syndrome is never used in a valid way. I have seen these statements being made about mental health disorders, including very serious once like de…

Ah, yeah, sorry for not being clear. I completely agree that downplaying serious mental disorders is a problem.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#354

Post by endofreach »

deanCommie wrote: post #77

A lot of the discussion here is treating impostor syndrome and qualifications as binary: You're either qualified or not. And your evaluation of your skills is either above your actual skills or not. But it's more nuanced than that. I'm a Principal Engineer at a FAAMNG company. I have impostor syndrome all the time. Why? Because I measure myself against 1) role models that are ahead of me in many ways - I've always do…

Just keep the lie going.

I keep writing shit code - i am just lucky it doesn‘t look or run like shit, so nobody realizes. And i charge way too much for things that make my clients rich and work pretty good but are actually not good enough. And these idiots are falling for it happily and come back. I always thought of myself as an honest guy, though it seems that I am not. But then: who is.

Honestly: I just hope some day this feeling parts.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#355

Post by cutemonster »

Falling3 wrote: post #332
titzer wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really agree. I find the long-winded version confusing, and as I am not sure if there is a gotcha somewhere in there, I have to read the whole thing and follow the whole argument. You don't necessarily have to use math symbols, but it really helps to be terse.

Why waste time say lot word when few do trick? For anyone with even a passing knowledge of symbolic logic, what you provided is clear. But the explanation wouldn't be required for those people who are going to be familiar with that Fallacy anyway. It's for those who aren't aware of it. In that case, the symbolic version is of no help and the longer verbal explanation is important.

What about starting with a TL;DR for those who know symbols, then the detailed explanation?

But oh no, I think the edit window has closed for @ARandomerDude

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#357

Post by zcw100 »

I don’t think it’s imposter syndrome that’s the problem. It’s mutual dishonesty. When an employer asks for 10 years experience with a technology that has only existed for 5, they’re being dishonest. ( no I don’t think it’s a simple mistake). It’s impossible to satisfy the requirement and they’re being dishonest asking so the logical response is to simply be dishonest in your response. Yes, I have 10 years experience.

This extends to other things as well. When they say we are going to start using technology X. They don’t want to hear, “I don’t know it but I can probably get up to speed in a couple of weeks.” They want to hear,”oh ya, I’ve been working with that on my nights and weekends for about six months now. They’ll usually know no one knows it because they’ve been looking foe people for the last couple of months but can’t find anyone who has worked with x.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#358

Post by aiisjustanif »

labster wrote: post #352
stavros wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My employer agreed I was useless and decided to turn that into 9 days notice. Did they say you were useless and changed the notice to 9 days, or are you inferring the former from the latter?

Inference. My direct supervisor tried very hard to keep me but the CTO could not be convinced.

The CTO shouldn’t even be involved in that conversation imo. If I was your supervisor I would told the CTO about 3 weeks into your 5 weeks and off-boarded you with other engineers if needed.

Re: Actual impostors don't get impostor syndrome

#359

Post by aiisjustanif »

blub wrote: post #323
armchairhacker wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> good enough to deserve your position What does this mean? What qualifies as "good enough"? If you're not fired, you're good enough for your boss. There are billions of people from poor regions who would put in way more effort than you. Many of them are smarter too. You make $100K / year to spend 35 hours / week drinking coffee and writing JavaScript, they make like $10K / year to spend 60 hours / week physical labo…

It means that the employee is able to fulfill their tasks firstly according to industry and then company standards. Having a job or even launching a successful project does not mean that one is good enough - especially in software where having a job doesn’t convince anyone to offer one a job without grueling interviews and where most of the software produced is riddled with bugs and security holes. If one considers t…

What if the industry doesn’t even know how that task should be fulfilled or the company. There are some many projects/experiments/products are companies that good be delivered in some many ways.

> If one considers the hiring practices of top companies, they are absolutely claiming that the great majority of applicants are imposters.

It’s a logical fallacy that leetcode is only to filter imposters. And separately, gamification of interviews can definitely lead to real imposters.

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