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TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

asia.nikkei.com

351–360 of 725 posts

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry I was describing our current social networks. Impossible to gauge how thick to lay it on in text. I know you were. The issue here isn't that this kind of manipulation is totally unheard of, it's that it could be done far, far more effectively and stealthily with the control of the platform.

Eh let's take responsibility for our own culture before blaming on the insidious machinations of the great hidden Other.

> Eh let's take responsibility for our own culture before blaming on the insidious machinations of the great hidden Other.

What now? Who's blaming anything "on the insidious machinations of the great hidden Other"?

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China was supposed to start overtaking the US, but the one child policy knee-capped that route. Now their workforce is getting much smaller and the burden of care for the elderly is growing fast.

Unless you count farmers as part of the workforce, otherwise China will not see a reduction of their workforce for 10-15 years.

Why not count farmers as part of the workforce?

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to spoil a magnificent movie, the Russian classic Stalker [1]. If you haven't watched the film and want to one day, please stop reading this comment. It is a deep film with many themes but one main theme involves a curious plot device. From the Wikipedia article: "The Zone contains a place called the "Room", said to grant the wishes of anyone who steps inside." The theme of that plot device is that once a grou…

TikTok sorts you according to it's interests, not your own. Just because they notice that you are more engaged with irritating content doesn't mean you like irritating content.

This does not match my experience using TikTok.

I have an heuristic I follow whenever content I do not want appears on my FYP. I immediately scroll. I don't let the video get 10 seconds in, I absolutely do not let it finish. I do not swipe left to see other videos by the same creator. I do not click on the comments to see what other people are saying about the content. The second I realize I do not want content like that I swipe it away. If I get a series of such content I close the app and don't open until the next day. This has been 100% successful in removing unwanted content categories from my feed.

Alternatively, the opposite behavior is extremely effective in getting more content related to the current video. I let the video play all the way through or even play multiple times. I swipe left to see other content by the same creator and maybe watch a few of their other videos. I read the comments to see what other people are saying about the video.

It's pretty obvious if you think about it.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50k is really amateur numbers. 50k people have probably already read you comment. Charli Damelio's last post was her eating a bag of Takis for 20 seconds and it got 15 MILLION views. We're just not seeing those numbers in marginalized communities on tiktok but we do see queer creators with top-tier numbers on youtube, facebook, insta, etc. Where's the trans Charli or the obese Charli or the anti-capitalist Charli? Se…

You are cherry picking influencers to try and argue your point.. How do you know Charli Damelio isn’t queer? Maybe the reason you don’t see a certain demographic doing big numbers on a platform is because the users on said platform are not interested? I find it odd that you immediately jump to the conclusion that it must be oppression because everybody doesn’t find what you think they should find interesting. I’d rat…

> Maybe the reason you don’t see a certain demographic doing big numbers on a platform is because the users on said platform are not interested?

With a platform as popular as TikTok… no way does that fly.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh let's take responsibility for our own culture before blaming on the insidious machinations of the great hidden Other.

> Eh let's take responsibility for our own culture before blaming on the insidious machinations of the great hidden Other. What now? Who's blaming anything "on the insidious machinations of the great hidden Other"?

"Effective and stealthy manipulation" were your words I believe. Short hop from there for someone else to go further.

We just watched people spend 3-4 years claiming that 50 Russian internet trolls were responsible for beating a billion dollar presidential campaign. The "smart people"! At some point you have to add up the mass values and ask if this adds up, or if we're just making excuses for ourselves.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#356

I like to think of TikTok as the crack cocaine of addictive social media. I used to think my dopamine receptors were burned out by the constant barrage of memes I received from reddit, Facebook and Twitter but TikTok proves they can refine that product to make it even more potent. When I visit reddit now it feels behind in the same way Facebook used to feel behind. Facebook's video feature (which they shove into my f…

[deleted]

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#357
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to include the excerpt where a TikTok representative stated this was a bad practice and that they don't do those these things anymore?

I mean, that's about as credible as Facebook claiming to be turning over a new leaf on privacy, isn't it?

I joined Facebook (WhatsApp specifically) in January after working at Amazon for many years. It's evident to me that the company has been and continues to invest massively in privacy and privacy protection – to the extent of inventing new internal technologies that enforce it automatically while handling data, so that software developers don't have to add manual "Should this person/software system be able to access this content" checks all over the various sprawling systems that comprise such a massive platform: software that is privacy-protecting while handling data by default. This tech spans both employees and users. Additionally, all projects undergo a privacy review process, so as not to rely purely on technology. (And, who knows, maybe someday the tech will be open sourced such as FB released Apache Thrift, PyTorch, React, and tons of other tech).

(I will acknowledge that privacy means different things to different people, and that some people may consider a company building a profile of their behavior – even if used in an anonymized and aggregated way – to be violating their privacy. I personally don't consider it to be, but I accept that others have different views on this and don't want to be tracked, even if it's with the intention of making the product experience and advertising better. Personally, if I have to see ads, I'd rather they be personalized and relevant to my interests, than generic ads for Tide detergent or Coca-Cola. I actually bookmarked websites for two out of the last three ads YouTube showed me because they were products I didn't know about that I am actually interested in.

However, I have this comfort level in part because I am a software engineer who has worked on these systems, and I realize that the systems that build profiles and show content based on them are just machines that don't care one way or the other about people as individuals; and the engineers building those systems and managing those data sets are, by and large, with few exceptions, professionals doing a job, and have no interest in snooping on you. The larger tech companies also have internal monitoring systems that detect employee misuse of data, which is why you hear in the news about people occasionally being fired for it.

I'm sure there are people at your ISP who could single out and monitor your Internet traffic if they wanted to (though TLS would mean they could only learn what sites you visit – that could still be compromising information, e.g., do you visit porn sites?); and people at your cell phone company can probably listen in to your phone calls and SMS in real time if they wanted to [1]. We know the police have that ability, so the carrier certainly does. Some administrator who runs a system always has access to its data. But the people operating these systems are, like you and me, sane people doing a job and don't want to get fired for abusing our access. We strive to minimize what we collect, anonymize it, encrypt it, aggregate it so that data for individuals is not present in the anonymized collective used to serve content, etc.)

[1] Last time I checked, SMS was actually broadcast over the radio in the clear, so in fact anyone with the right radio receiver and software could intercept and decode all SMS in an area. Maybe cell standards have evolved since then; I don't know anything about it – perhaps someone else can comment. If they've improved cell standards such that SMS over radio to the tower is encrypted, then there's still an administrator at your telecom provider who can read them. So if you're paranoid, that's another potential reason to use an end-to-end encrypted communicator like WhatsApp :-), where nobody but you and the participant on the other side can access the communication. iMessage, Signal, and Wickr also to my knowledge provide legitimate E2EE.

Facebook is in the process of implementing E2EE for Facebook Messenger and Instagram Direct Messages. In other words, the company is investing in a relatively massive internal engineering effort to take away its own ability to read your messages, at no benefit to the company beyond being able to provide the stronger privacy that users want. That's another reason I believe in the company's sincerity about privacy. And what you post on your wall, you're generally posting intentionally for all your friends or the public to read, depending on your permission settings. You can also post a message on your wall that's only visible to a limited audience you define too, but I doubt the wall will ever be E2EE because of the audience sizes involved. E2EE provides substantially less value when a media star that anyone can follow posts messages that are read by millions. What's more interesting is whether other people can see that you follow a particular person – that's also probably something you can control via the right privacy settings. Facebook has a lot of privacy settings for your account, way more than most users know about. In fact I'm pretty sure there's a switch to you can toggle and ask the company not to profile you – but I haven't checked recently so don't hold me to that.

Personally, I'd rather be profiled and see content and advertisements relevant to my interests, than shitty content and ads, so I tolerate the profiling, as long as companies keep the data they collect to themselves.

If you buy a house or get a cable subscription, by comparison, the companies involved will immediately sell your personal information to all sorts of data brokers, which is why you'll start getting junk mail immediately. (Even if they didn't, real estate ownership is public record, so data brokers would eventually get at it anyway, just less conveniently.)

FAANG companies to my knowledge no longer share or sell any data that they collect outside their walls. (I'm not an authority on this. Amazon never did to my knowledge. Pretty sure Google never did. Doubt Netflix does – maybe at a very aggregate level. Pretty sure Facebook no longer does, but I don't know their policies about working with scientists. After getting burned so badly over the university researcher who passed on data he collected to Cambridge Analytica, I'd guess that's stopped or tightened significantly. I have not looked into FB's policies about research. Researchers that work with Amazon have to be at least part-time employees and are locked tightly with contracts that gives Amazon authority over their ability to publish or share any data from their employment; giving Amazon the ability to go after them hardcore if they abuse their access. FAANG and related parties will however engaged in sophisticated matching schemes that allows them to track ad conversion between each other (such as if Amazon is advertising on Facebook) without actually sharing any personally identifiable data, using complex cryptography and anonymity processes.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#358
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an out of touch take from the TikTok=China=bad days of 2019/2020. I see queer creators on TikTok all the time. Quite frequently actually. This was the second video that showed up for me today, with 500k views (it is propaganda out of the White House, in collaboration with a popular queer creator): https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMdosCgTr/ Only 50k views from an amateur creator, because TikTok hates queers: https://vm.…

50k is really amateur numbers. 50k people have probably already read you comment. Charli Damelio's last post was her eating a bag of Takis for 20 seconds and it got 15 MILLION views. We're just not seeing those numbers in marginalized communities on tiktok but we do see queer creators with top-tier numbers on youtube, facebook, insta, etc. Where's the trans Charli or the obese Charli or the anti-capitalist Charli? Se…

> Also encouraging vaccinations isn't "propaganda" but sane and safe health policy.

Sane and safe health policy can still be propaganda. The moment you distill things into messages you just repeat and push, it’s propaganda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#359

I like to think of TikTok as the crack cocaine of addictive social media. I used to think my dopamine receptors were burned out by the constant barrage of memes I received from reddit, Facebook and Twitter but TikTok proves they can refine that product to make it even more potent. When I visit reddit now it feels behind in the same way Facebook used to feel behind. Facebook's video feature (which they shove into my f…

I don't think the algorithm is that good, it's simply that the content is better. I used TikTok for a couple of weeks and the product is very good. I uninstalled it not because I didn't like it but because I think it's another step in the wrong direction, for society and for me personally.

I believe the amazing content and algorithm go hand in hand. It isn't like humanity suddenly became more creative in 2019. TikTok has two things going for it that I believe create a feedback loop.

First, their algorithm is good. Those same memes and ideas are on reddit, YouTube and even Facebook but often they are buried. TikTok algorithm manages to surface them extremely well, finding the right audience for the content with a much higher degree of success.

Second, the low barrier to entry for creating new content means that ideas iterate more quickly. If I see a funny YouTube video and I have an idea on how to expand or refine the idea, it is a bit of effort to create the content. By contrast, the extremely low production bar on TikTok means people can riff on ideas in near real-time. What starts off as an amusing seed of an idea can grow into a mind-blowing work of comedy genius over the course of thousands of videos within a week.

At each step these work together - good idea is surfaced by the algo, hundreds of works inspired by it get created, the best of those ideas are surfaced, hundreds of works are derived.

However, I agree with you in the direction of "but for what?" Amusing Ourselves to Death [1] was written in 1985 and is as relevant as ever.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you count farmers as part of the workforce, otherwise China will not see a reduction of their workforce for 10-15 years.

Why not count farmers as part of the workforce?

Farming as percentage of workforce is still huge in China. Higher than countries with similar GDP per capita. Urbanization is also not high enough.
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