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WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

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Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#351

Post by sneak »

zepto wrote: post #311
dont__panic wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple stores user iCloud backups and their encryption keys on Chinese government-controlled servers in China, and gives the Chinese government full access to those servers. And routinely grants the US government warrantless access to those same backups in the US. So what actions are you referring to that show they won't do any of those scary things?

Right, so presumably you’d agree that the people who are saying that CSAM detection is a problem because China might abuse it are just being silly, right? As for the US government having access to the backups, that’s required by law. You can always make the paranoid case that Apple wants to do this because they are somehow lying about their values, or you can make the case that their hand has been forced. You could a…

> As for the US government having access to the backups, that’s required by law.

This is a false statement. Google's android backups are end to end encrypted.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#352

Post by hi41 »

Few years back Google informed authorities about a person who stored vile images of child porn in Google Drive. How is Apple’s implementation any different from that of Google. Aren’t both the same? However, I did not see lot of protests against Google at that time.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#353

Post by badRNG »

javagram wrote: post #317
badRNG wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Facebook to be selling my data, it isn't necessary that they email a data broker some spreadsheet of my personal data. Selling advertisers access to an incredibly intimate and private picture of my personal life so that they can best exploit my specific life circumstances to unduly influence me is exactly what bothers me about Facebook "selling my data." To claim that Facebook isn't selling my data is a semantic…

“literally sell all your data to anyone who wants” This, which started the discussion, is just downright false. Who does Facebook sell my private photo albums to for instance? How could I buy someone’s photos?

Sure, they aren't selling strings of user passwords or pictures of users' government ID, so I guess the word "all" is inaccurate (in a wholly pedantic sort of way that's a red herring from what the actual concern being discussed is.)

What is being sold is access to incredibly in-depth pictures of users' private lives collected via the surveillance of the near totality of their online lives, to include even websites they visit off-platform. This access is sold to anyone who wishes to weaponize this deeply intimate picture of a user's private life (a picture only developed due to an unconscionable level of surveillance) to unduly influence them to believe or behave in ways they otherwise wouldn't.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#354

Post by npongratz »

jraph wrote: post #293
npongratz wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had a phone that had a Facebook application preinstalled, and prevented removal of said application. Setting up the phone did not require FB credentials. I would be worried that even without logging into Facebook or giving it my credentials, my FB-ized phone would help FB's efforts in creating and maintaining shadow profiles. As far as I'm concerned, since the FB app is tied into the OS so tightly that it cann…

Deactivating the app is usually possible and is equivalent to uninstalling it on Android. It still takes some room in the system partition but you cannot use it anyway. Unless you root your phone, in which case you can also remove the app entirely. These preinstalled apps are still crap though, I'd rather have a smaller system partition and a bigger user data partition, should I own such a phone.

This phone was paid for and controlled by the company for whom I worked at the time, so I didn't want to cross the IT overlords and their policies by rooting the phone.

Good to know about deactivating apps on Android, though; thank you! I do not remember if I had that option.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#355

Post by darthrupert »

hughrr wrote: post #6
zpeti wrote: post #3

I really hope there is enough momentum to stop this. It's definitely the last straw for me in terms of apple products. I haven't bought a new iphone for 4 years, I'm slowly trying to switch to a lightphone (non smartphone). My mac needs a change but I will probably switch to linux. It's absolutely ridiculous what apple has become. The exact opposite of what they used to represent, when I loved them. God rest Steve Jo…

It’s too late either way. The fact that it even got this far through implementation says the vendor is not on my side. Not only that once capability is revealed it can be required by governments and manipulated under warrant. Particularly in some regimes, mine included, the vendor can be compelled to do something and not say anything. My comment doesn’t even cover how monumentally flawed the entire thing is either. S…

Sounds to me like you just wanted to buy a lot of new stuff.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#356

Post by darthrupert »

Don't criticize this idea without informing us of a better way to protect against the worst offences of modern internet life.

Privacy advocates don't seem to get it. There can not and will not be a future where these people can hide in the net. Either somebody figures a way to catch them without hurting the privacy of the innocent, or we will use systems that hurt the privacy of the innocent.

There is no third option, so put your energy into finding a solution that satisfies the first option if you care about this so much.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#357

Post by jdavis703 »

pseudalopex wrote: post #329
jdavis703 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an American ADHD patient. My doctor made me (and his other patients) come in on random weekends for drug tests. He said the DEA made him report his records.

It's easy to find other people saying they don't have to take drug tests. It seems more likely your doctor is mistaken or lying than many other doctors just ignore a legal requirement.

I don’t know if it’s a legal requirement, I certainly couldn’t find any information on it. My assumption is some lawyer told him it’s a “best practice” to have this information on record in case the DEA audits him or something.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#358

Post by zepto »

sneak wrote: post #351
zepto wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so presumably you’d agree that the people who are saying that CSAM detection is a problem because China might abuse it are just being silly, right? As for the US government having access to the backups, that’s required by law. You can always make the paranoid case that Apple wants to do this because they are somehow lying about their values, or you can make the case that their hand has been forced. You could a…

> As for the US government having access to the backups, that’s required by law. This is a false statement. Google's android backups are end to end encrypted.

It’s not a false statement.

Encrypted or not, Google will give the backups to the government, along with any keys they have.

I agree that there would be more protection against the government if the backups were encrypted, and I hope this is still Apple’s plan.

Google on the other hand, has been scanning photos for CSAM all along, and collects a massive trove of behavioral data from android and every one of their other properties including search history, all of which are also available to the government.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#359

Post by aeternum »

throwaway75 wrote: post #332
aeternum wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False dichotomy, how long will it take the predators to learn not to use apple devices as cameras? Yet the privacy implications will last forever. Once it's implemented, it only takes a rubber-stamp warrant to compel Apple to scan your device for anything the government deems concerning. In fact, no warrant needed in most countries.

> how long will it take the predators to learn not to use apple devices as cameras? Which is why you make it mandatory on all devices sold, not just apple.

There are plenty of non-cloud connected digital cameras out there.

Re: WhatsApp lead and other tech experts fire back at Apple’s Child Safety plan

#360

Post by zepto »

ryanlol wrote: post #345
zepto wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not correct. This applies only to iCloud Photo Library, not to iCloud as a whole. iCloud Photo Library is an optional feature, and there are numerous alternatives.

Doesn’t matter, it’s still opt-out if you were using iCloud Photo Library before these features were announced. It’s really ridiculous to try to call this “opt-in”.

I was using iCloud Photo Library before this was announced.

None of my photos have been scanned, nor ever will be unless I choose for them to be. I don’t have to do anything to achieve this. They won’t scan anything unless I decide to go ahead.

That is the very meaning of opt-in.

Opt-out typically means that someone will go ahead with something unless you decline. This is not that.

I do agree that if I don’t want on device scanning in future, I will need to choose another could photo service, but in the meantime, nothing will be scanned without me taking positive action to initiate it.

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