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Building a vision of life without work (2015)

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Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#351

Post by xsmasher »

bambax wrote: post #127
dcolkitt wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting is the radical change over the past century, from a life of pure leisure being the mark of the aristocratic upper class to the lumpenproletariat. I love how Downton Abbey conveys this now alien concept to us early on by having the Dowager Countess ask " what is a 'weekend'? ". The perfect modern counter-balance is the classic line from Office Space: " Well, you don't need a million dollars to do no…

Work as purpose is a rather novel idea. Max Weber is really helpful here, and his seminal book, while published in 1905, seems more relevant than ever. It used to be that you worked just as much as you needed to, to sustain yourself. So much so that raising wages would immediately result in people working less, as they could earn the same amount of money with less work. Then at some point work became a "calling" and…

99PI had an anecdote about exactly that re: "Fordlândia," a rubber plantation in Brazil founded by Henry Ford. The local workers were a source of frustration because they would work one or two days, get paid, and then go home.

https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/fordlandia/

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#352

Post by xsmasher »

olah_1 wrote: post #209
opportune wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t like how he tries to diminish his partner’s feeling about “falling behind” as some mirage created by Instagram and classism. I think it’s pretty uncontroversial that most people don’t want to live on $30k/year for their entire life when they could maybe work and get more. Though maybe this is colored by the relevation that follows shortly thereafter. To me it shows an unwillingness to think critically…

Yeah, this line: > And she wasn’t trying that hard anyway, because she had acquired, somehow, New Life Dreams, which had to do with Conspicuous Consumption and Keeping Up and being Visibly Awesome — dreams which are at odds with my own. The desire to be seen and take part in society is fundamentally human. Yes, you can overdo it, but you can also underdo it. There is nothing wrong with going to nice restaurants, post…

You could say that comparing social status is innate and natural to some people, but to call Conspicuous Consumption "fundamentally human" is overstatement.

Different things make different people happy. Some people enjoy having the biggest TV on the block. Other people take pride in NOT having a TV.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#353

Post by beyondzero »

hesdeadjim wrote: post #118
lupire wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the Amish are particularly rich or childless?

This is where assumptions can get you in trouble. The Amish are extremely business savvy, shrewd negotiators, and have no issues being active members in the economy. They also own vast tracts of very valuable land (especially in Lancaster, PA). Combine that with being frugal and austere, and it's a recipe for wealth. For childcare, their community focus let's them share the burden amongst the larger group. Additional…

Lancaster, PA resident here. Many, possibly most, Amish are not farmers anymore. To your point, a lot own businesses like lawn care, grocery and hardware stores, tourist traps, and construction companies.

Since childcare is mentioned, I would be remiss if I did not point out that the Amish have a disproportionate rate of child sex abuse. Offenders often get off because the Amish community pressures victims not to testify. Victims are sent to re-education centers. It is pretty gross what goes on in plain (pardon the pun) sight. But they bring in tourist dollars. Most Amish are lovely of course, but their lifestyle has a very dark side.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#354

Post by sevagh »

CleverLikeAnOx wrote: post #253
sevagh wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2018: life was perfect with my perfect partner until my perfect partner left me 2021: life is perfect with a new perfect partner who's never going to leave me unlike my previous perfect partner 2023: any guesses?

Do we need to be this reductive? He was happy in a relationship but then it got bad and fell apart. That happens, alternative lifestyle or not. I don't see why this implies that his next relationship is unlikely to work out.

I'm certainly not hoping it goes badly for him. I just don't think it's healthy to learn about a source of volatility and then immediately go all-in on the next one.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#355

Post by ta988 »

svachalek wrote: post #313
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you find anything let me know. Of course here in the US the nigh-insurmountable problem with part time work is that you won't get health coverage at an affordable rate.

Yes, it's actually a bit better since "Obamacare" but still pretty ridiculous. Another is simply finding an employer who agrees to a part-time engineer. I'm typically on 3-6 major projects at any given time and it seems pretty obvious that simply dropping to 2-3 and working half the time would be a pretty easy adjustment to both sides -- but most management considers this unthinkable for some reason.

Because that would also make you more efficient and make them look bad.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#356

Post by ta988 »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #332
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even American bodies can get used to be inside at 80F :-)

I keep my place on 78F but I constantly have a fan on. 78F with a fan is at the edge of what I'd consider comfortable. I refuse to sweat indoors.

Then travel to colder climates, there is a common belief that the nice areas are hot and sunny. That's not my preference, I like it cold and not have to worry about sunburns and heat and so on.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#357

Post by ta988 »

carbonclan wrote: post #325
carbonclan wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purpose is so key! While I agree to the work life balance…. I have spent a good 6 years completely consumed 100% into work just coz I felt it was my calling! In the bargain lost out heavily in my personal life. But not sure if I regret that…. After that there was such a huge burnout, I’m still recuperating…. Is purpose overrated? Or does it put one off balance?

Today, I’ve changed my career drastically - moved frm industry to academia - taking one day at a time. And still unsure whr I’m headed. My earlier project-mgmt self would be agast to know the me today -

Good luck, I'm trying to go the other way.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#358

Post by nickfromseattle »

milliondollar wrote: post #349
carbonclan wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purpose is so key! While I agree to the work life balance…. I have spent a good 6 years completely consumed 100% into work just coz I felt it was my calling! In the bargain lost out heavily in my personal life. But not sure if I regret that…. After that there was such a huge burnout, I’m still recuperating…. Is purpose overrated? Or does it put one off balance?

I am starting to believe "purpose" as related to work is mostly a giant con. Sometimes we run it on ourselves. But we are all dust in the end. Does the project or business that we are working on really matter?

> Does the project or business that we are working on really matter?

Probably not in the grand scheme of things.

But it's fun to push yourself to your limits with other smart people.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#359

Post by cowvin »

walletburst wrote: post #301
yarcob wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

40h/week of work leaves very little time for household, kids, exercise, side projects, and relaxing. I think 20h/week is a more reasonable target if you want to enjoy things beside work. Of course it's okay to work 40h/week if you really want to, or even more, if you enjoy it, but you should really think hard about whether that's really what you want, or if it's just what your employer wants you to do.

This is where I think the concept of "coasting" to financial independence could be beneficial for many. The idea is that you build up enough investments early in life such that without any additional contributions, your net worth will grow to support retirement at a traditional retirement age. Then you just need to make enough money to cover your monthly living expenses, which could open up a lot more career options…

Yeah, my wife and I talk about reaching a sort of semi-retirement state where we can just make some small amount of money and not stress out about money anymore. That will keep us busy but we can take breaks any time we want to.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#360

Post by cortesoft »

kevinwang wrote: post #5

This person also posted an amazing, unvarnished update recently (about 5-6 years later): https://livingafi.com/2021/03/17/the-2021-early-retirement-u...

Man I really dislike the way he comes across. He acts like anyone who doesn't want his lifestyle is just "keeping up with the joneses" and "peacocking" and is just trying to impress other people, whereas he is enlightened and doesn't need that external validation.

That is so smug and self-important. He clearly has social needs, he just feels them differently. And also, not everyone who wants to work and have wealth is just doing it to keep up with others.

I like having some wealth because it makes a lot of things easier. I like the stuff I buy, for myself, for its intrinsic value. A lot of things I spend money on I never even show anyone else. I don't post on social media or go on social media, but I still like a nice house and some toys.

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