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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

accc.gov.au

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#351

Post by homero »

murphyslab wrote: post #211
thombles wrote: post #120

Incidentally, if you have a business registered for GST in Australia you have to submit a quarterly activity statement. The tax office website had bizarre authentication requirements but the browser plugin was at least cross-platform. They now require you to use the myGovID app, which is - you guessed it - available only on the App Store and Play Store. You can't even run a business without being part of the duopoly.…

When I was in grad school, the university's Student Union provided an extended health insurance plan. To get a reimbursement, you had two options for submitting a claim: (1) Paper forms submitted via the student union or (2) the insurance company's app which was only for Apple devices. The app's only functionality was to facilitate taking a photo (of a receipt) and uploading that photo, along with the user's details.…

Banks require apps to deposit checks for instance to get location and other data for anti fraud

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#352

Post by inopinatus »

simondotau wrote: post #341
inopinatus wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they chose not to phrase it exactly as I did Quite so. Let's emphasise that: they chose not to phrase it exactly as you did . And by my reading, significantly so. > I invite anyone to read the press release How about going one better: read the report that the media release accompanies. > equating them is a common theme among complaints about Google and Apple's dominance of their platforms' app ecosystems That's by…

> Well, yes, this is their job And we all know that people always do what their job title says they should do. > what is the equivalent of ad hominem Sigh. It seems 2021 is the year of calling things ad hominem which aren't. It's not ad hominem to accuse the ACCC of being untrustworthy because of prior bad actions in a recent, comparable matter. It would have been ad hominem if I said that the ACCC is untrustworthy b…

Okay, so what is the phrase for a shallow and transparent attempt to undermine the findings of a report by slinging mud about its origin, after being called out for misrepresenting the actual content?

Rule: you can't say "sledging", only the other Australians will understand.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#353

Post by nisegami »

gonehome wrote: post #54
Elidrake24 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user of iOS, this is precisely why I go with Apple, and why I push my family to do the same. Particularly for the more elderly in my family, Apple's setup (by and large) prevents them from doing anything that would screw themselves over. Removing Apple's control removes my desire to be apart of that ecosystem, and I know that is true for many others outside our insular little community here.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

There's always been a trivial fix here in my opinion - allowing services to charge Google Play and App Store users more. Let users decide how much the safety and convenience of billing through Apple/Google is worth.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#354

Post by simondotau »

inopinatus wrote: post #352
simondotau wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, yes, this is their job And we all know that people always do what their job title says they should do. > what is the equivalent of ad hominem Sigh. It seems 2021 is the year of calling things ad hominem which aren't. It's not ad hominem to accuse the ACCC of being untrustworthy because of prior bad actions in a recent, comparable matter. It would have been ad hominem if I said that the ACCC is untrustworthy b…

Okay, so what is the phrase for a shallow and transparent attempt to undermine the findings of a report by slinging mud about its origin, after being called out for misrepresenting the actual content? Rule: you can't say "sledging", only the other Australians will understand.

"The Daily Telegraph"

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#355

Post by account42 »

hyperman1 wrote: post #317
partomniscient wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its all fine until you have to complain about something going wrong and it becomes very trying to comply with whatever they need despite it being their fault. I got stuck in a bureaucratic loop because an OCR reader interpreted a 0 as an 8. The fact that the automated process changed status and started throwing more forms at me, even though none it makes sense in context. Just because it was programmed that way. I st…

The horrible hold music/talk experience where they tell you how wonderful everything is just makes me loathe to attempt it again. It did exactly what it was supposed to do: lower their costs by making it your instead of their problem.

Except now people like me will refuse to use phone support and email/mail/tweet their PR/CEO/whoever to resolve the issue, which are all likely more expensive than proper support staff.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#356

Post by inopinatus »

pessimizer wrote: post #331
inopinatus wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The release does not say these things, and it is misleading to intentionally paraphrase as to invent logical conflicts that aren't present. In particular, it is wrong to equate the existence of controls with the abuse of market power. Examples: Kicking a scammer off your app store is a use of power that benefits the consumer. Obliging service providers to mislead the consumer about their subscription options is an ab…

> Kicking a scammer off your app store is a use of power that benefits the consumer. But in a world that was taking consumer choice seriously would be primarily a job for law enforcement. We don't delegate traffic enforcement to the people who build and maintain roads.

Actually I think this'd be a recipe for scams to proliferate. Law enforcement processes mostly occur after the fact, often long after, and in any case, a great many nations already do take consumer choice seriously.

The transportation metaphor is somewhat problematic, because roads are commissioned and paid for by the same class of agency that employs traffic enforcement officers: domestic government. Nevertheless, delegating the enforcement of regulations to an accountable private entity is a common practice, and you'll see it in everything from medicine to logistics.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#357

Post by bongobingo »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

Android has an 87% market share. I don’t really care what the minority players are up to.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#358

Post by Redoubts »

amelius wrote: post #338
gonehome wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

> Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. You and Apple are conflating "App Store" and "Content Filter". We can have multiple App Stores and multiple types of content filters. It doesn't need to be like the current situation, with Apple in full control over everything.

50 years of worse-is-better ruling the software world suggests otherwise.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#359

Post by Redoubts »

fyzix wrote: post #222
Elidrake24 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user of iOS, this is precisely why I go with Apple, and why I push my family to do the same. Particularly for the more elderly in my family, Apple's setup (by and large) prevents them from doing anything that would screw themselves over. Removing Apple's control removes my desire to be apart of that ecosystem, and I know that is true for many others outside our insular little community here.

So you don't use or recommend Mac for your family members? Because third party apps can be installed...

iPad is probably the best choice for most, and is what most of my older relatives have independently chosen.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#360

Post by AntiImperialist »

Elidrake24 wrote: post #42
encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

As a user of iOS, this is precisely why I go with Apple, and why I push my family to do the same. Particularly for the more elderly in my family, Apple's setup (by and large) prevents them from doing anything that would screw themselves over. Removing Apple's control removes my desire to be apart of that ecosystem, and I know that is true for many others outside our insular little community here.

Spoken like an iTard.

Here's the thing: just because Google allows the users to install packages from other app stores does not mean they have to. You can allow which app stores you want to use. In fact, you have to explicitly allow app stores, like you'd expect.

There is no explanation why this is not regulated, other than the fact that Apple must be paying a significant amount to potential regulators to shut them up.

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