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Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

therecord.media

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Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole point is that Apple is selling an Apple experience Once you bought a thing, you own it. That's it. It's cool to have a curated app store for those developers who want it. It's uncool for Apple to retain control of devices after they've been sold. > This is like a restaurant demanding smart shoes for customers You can't make this comparison. You don't get to choose what kind of mobile device other people u…

> " I don't give a crap about money. I despise intellectual property and proprietary software. I'll never sell a byte. " > " People buy smartphones because you need one to function in the modern society. They choose either Google or Apple. Neither of these corporations deserves all the credit they feel entitled to. " And you can sideload on Android, and they chose not-Android. and you could do so on Blackberry, and W…

You aren't making sense, again.

> And you can sideload on Android, and they chose not-Android.

How many people actually know anything about what it takes to publish to the app store? Developers literally aren't allowed to tell them. If you write the very sensible "this content is not available on this device due to Apple App Store policies", you app will be rejected. Almost no one says bad things about Apple because of the fear that they might be denied presence on iOS. This is a very large power imbalance, and this absolutely needs to be dealt with. I'm so looking forward to those antitrust cases.

> and you could do so on Blackberry, and WindowsPhone, and Maemo and Symbian, and they all failed for not offering what people want.

"I wish my phone didn't allow me to install on it what I want" said no one ever. They failed for other reasons.

It's okay to have an app store as a default way of installing apps. What's not okay is making it THE ONLY way of installing apps, thus robbing people of choice.

> Agreed, so people who want unsigned or self-signed code can buy macs, right? Choice. Nobody is forced to buy an iOS device

Computers and phones aren't the same thing, you can't compare them like that. I use a Mac precisely because it's great experience AND it allows me to run whatever the hell I tell it to. I use Android for the same reason.

> It's like saying "My email isn't spam" and ignoring that spam is a huge problem and people willingly subscribe to gatekeepers at massive effort and cost industry-wide to try and protect themselves.

Calling things "spam" or "not spam" is users' own choice. You as an email user always have the last word in whether something is spam. You don't have this as an iOS user. If Apple says something isn't good for you, this decision is final. You just aren't getting that app no matter how much you want it.

By the way, if Google says something isn't good for you, the developer can still distribute an apk from their website. Yes, it won't be as prominent, and it won't have a listing page, but the users would still have the option to install it if they want it.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#352

What are the best alternatives to iOS and Android? Is it reasonable to consider the hardware itself "safe", given that the software tracks and calls home about every single thing it does? What are the alternatives?

Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Librem_5.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#353
post #177

Every week there's a story here on HN that makes me mourn the demise of the Nokia N900. Still the best smartphone ever made by a massive margin. I hope both those things are made obsolete by stories of smartphones that work well and are vastly more trustworthy than Google and Apple. The longer it takes, the harder it gets. Whatsapp/Signal ports are now hard requirements for much of the population. :S

But what about Librem 5 and Pinephone?

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YMMV, but as much as I like Apple Maps and use it as much as I can, for the more complex/unknown routes I definitely rely more on Google Maps to get it right. I don't know if telemetry is the cause for the better service, but it is noticeably better for me. Separately, I'm also a google customer as I run an Ad campaign for a small business (skilled labor), and the dollars spent on search ads are extremely efficient w…

Just quickly comparing Apple Maps and Google Maps: There is no Apple Maps web page. With Google I can do a complex route plan on my PC and my phone will have the "recent searches" in it ready to go when I get in the car. Apple Maps doesn't show how packed the trains are. Google Maps shows me how full individual train carriages are! Apple Maps can't provide cycling directions in my area (a world city!), Google can. Ap…

Consider trying https://openstreetmap.org, too.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam keys sold off steam do not give valve a cut.

Valve is definitely getting some kind of money out of the deal.

I'm a developer who uses Steamworks. Keys are free for us to generate and sell at will. Valve reserve the right to say no, but from what I can tell, their only policy is to not take the piss (selling millions of keys), and not to charge more to customers who buy directly from Steam.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#356
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that users would all be side loading apps and developers would be making far more money having their apps spread across 5+ different stores that would compete down to lower prices is delusional. If that were the case, why has this not happened on Windows or MacOS where side loading is actually the default yet Steam, GOG, etc still charge 30%? That has happened. The majority of my 20,000 Steam games were ac…

You are in a teeny tiny minority. I made it clear I'm talking about the mass market. These arguments are made under the false presence (or delusion) that they are in the interests of the broad base of users who would get lower prices. They would not, we can see that clearly from the Android and PC games markets. These arguments are being made by a tiny minority for the benefit of a small community of techies who alre…

> You are in a teeny tiny minority

Minority? Probably. Tiny? Absolutely not.

Here [0] is a breakdown of 70 popular Steam games by the source of purchase for their reviewers as of a year ago. About 28% of all Steam purchases happen outside of Steam itself, with Valve getting a 0% cut. Note that for many games a majority of reviewers did not purchase it on Steam itself.

0: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1ICv-UE4i651yMkpD...

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC 50% (60%) was the rate for the app distributor I used for selling my PalmOS app. It was digital download, too. For the Apple case: access to the walled garden is the majority of the benefit. But still, setting up payments, customer service, chargebacks, fees, etc., is nice to have taken care of. 30% nice? Who knows. But more than just the raw payment processor overhead, surely. AFAIK physical boxes are way above…

There were a couple of stores that were more expensive. But there's 2 reasons the comparisons aren't valid: 1) The revolution Apple brought to mobile phones was making them personal computers. So the relevant comparison really should be with personal computers and I doubt any of them had stores that took as much of a cut. 2) More relevant, the vast majority of such app stores which charged 40-50% were optional market…

My phone can’t run an IDE or compile code, can’t run solid works, can’t be shared with multiple people, can’t render CGI, can’t mine BTC, and can’t run office, etc.

If this is a personal computer, solely because it runs a browser, then the goalposts have shifted dramatically.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple devices aren't crippled by it, they're improved by it. By curation and restriction. Users don't buy Apple gear to pay the lowest possible price for software, or to sideload software, users buy Apple to get something that works. The whole point is that Apple is selling an Apple experience, not an overwhelming flood of "fix it yourself" freeware. Users who want that can get it elsewhere, they shouldn't be forced…

That argument would be fine if we had plenty of mobile OS providers, except we have only two and it's a duopoly with very clear market issues. If you don't like Bosch, there's hundreds of other manufacturer, if you don't like a restaurant, there's hundreds of other ones you can pick, if you don't like Android and iOS, well, you're screwed. That's the market analogy, secondly, those monopolies are essential in today's…

> The whole point is that Apple is selling an Apple experience, not an overwhelming flood of "fix it yourself" freeware. Users who want that can get it elsewhere, they shouldn't be forced to suffer it on iOS as well.

> That argument would be fine if we had plenty of mobile OS providers

So your problem is Apple solved the customer problem so well with “an Apple experience” that all other phone OSes were abandoned.

And as a result Apple should be forced to ruin that experience beloved by their customers, so that the relatively small number of software developers make a little more money?

As an Apple customer, I’m glad your software is being gated from me. I don’t trust your judgement.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#359
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation on Android shows us that consumers like consolidation and they like walled gardens and simple choices. These things benefit them. Plenty of Android phones come with 2 or 3 app stores. One for the carrier, one for the vendor and Google Play Store. There plenty are others as well, but the market has spoken. Even Epic had to fold and move to Play Store. Maybe Google played dirty, but I think it's perfectly…

> The idea that users would all be side loading apps and developers would be making far more money having their apps spread across 5+ different stores that would compete down to lower prices is delusional. If that were the case, why has this not happened on Windows or MacOS where side loading is actually the default yet Steam, GOG, etc still charge 30%? That has happened. The majority of my 20,000 Steam games were ac…

Side note but what does one do with 20,000 games? Do you actually play this many?

Genuine curiosity, not trying to troll or anything.

Re: Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps referring to people who buy and use X's products and services as "X's customers" is unfamiliar to you, but it's in very common usage, and conveys no element of ownership: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22apple%27s%20custome... > " You are not helping your case by making these daft comparisons. " The person I was originally replying to is the one who brought up washing machines as having general purpos…

What if Alice lives in a gated community because it has a pool and would like to receive mail that hasn’t been pre-screened?

Then we’re talking about different Alice’s. Your Alice can side load on Android.
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