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Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#351

Post by KirillPanov »

ghaff wrote: post #198
dheera wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My best solution right now is a UPS box, which gives you a proper street address. Most places that ask for utility bills will accept a phone bill or insurance bill or some such which you can have arranged to be sent to that address. I'd be interested to know if there are similar services that are cheaper and ideally less well-known than UPS but equally reliable. Delivery to my real address with the ability to trust t…

You could probably check out RV and van life forums. One question would be the degree to which you can get away with giving the state (for drivers license/ID/tax purposes), company, etc. a "fake" address that is not a residential address. A lot depends on what you think you're guarding against and how many compromises you're willing to make. For example, you can't actually buy a house and remain anonymous unless you…

> you can't actually buy a house and remain anonymous unless you set up some shell company which I assume is expensive

It is not. Under $100/year in most states.

> and probably has tax consequences.

It doesn't. The LLC has no income (assuming you're not renting that "decoy house"), so there's nothing to report to the IRS.

> doesn't even really solve the problem of having to give your address to someone if you want anything delivered.

That's what a PO Box or rental mailbox is for.

Just keep in mind that you won't be able to hide the fact that it isn't your residence from the data brokers or anyone else who demands a "residential" address and is willing to spend a few dollars verifying that.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#352

Post by input_sh »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #293
bitcharmer wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with banning a backwards custom that limits women's rights?

i think your point is valid but still shouldn't enter the fray. This is about swiss nationality and customs. Not about women's rights. Just like you don't go to your greek neighbor's dinner party wearing a turkish flag, there are things you don't do when you are the guest at someone else's party. The burka represents a lot of very nasty things, in countries that the overwhelming majority (60%) believe 911 was totally…

> The burka represents a lot of very nasty things, in countries that the overwhelming majority (60%) believe 911 was totally OK and beheading or stoning minorities is OK.

There are countries in Europe that are majority Muslim (Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania) where nobody thinks that, and where any kind of face cover is totally up to the choice. Turkey isn't that extreme either. Neither is Indonesia, Bangladesh, Nigeria, etc etc.

Why don't people ever think of those and jump straight to the Middle East? There are just as many Muslims living in India as there are in the Middle East.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#353

Post by KirillPanov »

ghaff wrote: post #209
KirillPanov wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My best solution right now is a UPS box, which gives you a proper street address. USPS maintains a very immaculately curated list of CMRAs (Commercial Mail Receiving Agents). It's not hard because they need to register with USPS in order to receive mail on behalf of customers who pay them for mail-receiving service. USPS is allowed to deny them mail delivery if they refuse to register, and does. Every place that wa…

Would there be any reason not just to buy undeveloped land instead? (Not sure when a property parcel gets assigned an address.)

Unfortunately address assignment is derived from county building permits except in very special situations.

Technically counties issue "situses" and the USPS adopts those as delivery addresses. Most/all counties won't hand out a situs without a building permit and completed inspection. USPS can create addresses without county situses (for example, military installations or federal hydroelectric projects) but I don't think they will do it in any situation that's applicable here.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#354

Post by mda »

DocTomoe wrote: post #329
Ascarius wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually at the same votation, Switzerland accepted a law which forbid women to wear Burka. Which is not exactly let live.

We need to be precise here. Firstly "accepting a law" implies - in western liberal democracies - a legislative process in which a law is proposed and accepted by some kind of parliament. This is not what happened here - in Switzerland, laws can be given to the population directly by non-parliamentary, non-governmental organisations in referenda, which then become binding. The law you are referring to was accepted by…

Hey, "But only in public!" Are you really defending imprisoning Woman to their homes by maybe robbing them of their few privileges? I am utterly disgusted how they frame this bs.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#355

Post by mda »

jeofken wrote: post #257
zorked wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why am I not surprised that HN is a place to find people who argue against women's right to vote.

HN is very diverse :) But we all argue in good faith and are willing to yield to reason

"argue in good faith"? "willing to yield to reason"?

Please.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#356

Post by jeofken »

0x003 wrote: post #283
jeofken wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you so sure that your ideal is how they should live? What I admire about the Swiss is how they live and let live - they may disagree with the neighbour, but let them be.

Not allowing one group to have an equal voice is the opposite of live and let live

Taken to its conclusion should this not include every living being? Why not children, or animals? Ageism and speciesism indeed.

My point is that while the majority of Swiss cantons decided to not have gender restrictions on voting, they allowed Apenzell to keep being the weird one, and in response the people of Apenzell don’t force their way onto others. If I don’t want my neighbour to tell me how to run my household, I must also not force them. Apenzell didn’t force their way into the Züricher.

Although in the end, the people of Apenzell were forced to change their way.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#357

Post by mda »

bitcharmer wrote: post #205
marcod wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that same system also voted on banning Muslim face coverings ("Experts estimate that at most a few dozen Muslim women wear full-face coverings in the country of 8.5 million people."), while a pandemic is going on and face coverings for protection are recommended. https://apnews.com/article/health-legislation-coronavirus-pa...

What's wrong with banning a backwards custom that limits women's rights?

Because it is a complex cultural issue and banning it probably harms woman further from an already oppressed state. In some cases basically imprisoning them into their homes or forcing them to relocate. No one bothered asking those woman about their thoughts or circumstances.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#358

Post by _v7gu »

Krasnol wrote: post #323
DoreenMichele wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, the veil was considered a huge step forward for women's rights/freedoms as it allowed them to leave the house more than three times in their life. Before that, they left the house to marry and move from their father's home to their husband's and when they died....and maybe I am misremembering that number of "three times" or maybe I just can't remember the third instance. (I'm a woman. I've had a college…

Well, now they'll have to stay at home again...which is what the fascists who brought that in actually wanted. They just don't want to see them on the streets. It's kinda sad that so many supported this and I'm happy that this wide ban would (probably...) be unconstitutional in Germany.

Someone not letting their wife out because burqua is banned is outright abuse, and should be dealt with that way. It isn't even a common piece of clothing in the majority of muslim countries. (+1 point to horseshoe theory: apparently islam forbids women to go out without burquas according to both extreme leftists and rightists, bu noone else)

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#359

Post by mda »

bitcharmer wrote: post #255
lwkl wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's stop a backwards custom that is practiced by 30 people with a backwards law that limit's clothing choices for seven Million people.

I'm friends with a few Muslim women and can assure you that it has nothing to do with choice.

I knew hundreds of muslim woman and many do it by choice. So what now?

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#360

Post by herbst »

Bayart wrote: post #308
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i disagree wholeheartedly in that it is more cooperative. Switzerland is anything but cooperative. But that's what makes this country so great. We take our divisions, within cantons, and leverage them for positive externalities to (accidentally) benefit the greater good. In CH, every very canton sets their own citizenship policy. Its not a coincidence. Did you hear about the woman that's been living in Zug, and been…

>So, while spain sends soldiers to die in Afghanistan, or the UK wastes decades of development on a grand EU project, or US citizens get spied on by their own govt via Patriot Act.... CH is just sitting pretty, doing its thing. Arguing about every little detail to exhaustion. Switzerland can afford to do this because it's surrounded by countries that protect it from the real world. It doesn't have a real foreign poli…

I am not sure what dangers you imply here.
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