Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 839 posts

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#351

Post by um_ya »

tshaddox wrote: post #344
tptacek wrote: post #134

Ken White has been talking about the potential for this suit for a couple weeks now. He spends a lot of time talking about what isn't defamation --- people use defamation suits and threats thereof to chill free speech, and he's a 1st Amendment guy --- but the Dominion cases are apparently examples of very serious defamation cases. The core of defamation is (1) a false statement of purported fact that (2) causes damag…

> The problem is that it's not totally clear whether Giuliani believed any of his crazy-talk. It may actually be the case that Giuliani is just off his rocker. If he himself was sold by the (false) facts he received from others, he is a more difficult defamation target. That part seems bizarre. Surely he ought to still be culpable is he said false things with the intention to damage Dominion, even if he can convince…

There is still meaningful court cases going on, in relation to this election. If you're curious to see all the evidence Giuliani and other lawsuits brought forward, here's a compilation of the evidence brought forward, sorted by significance:

https://airtable.com/shrhYBx2cboqsKv14/tbl0at4AkLpdBFOzp?bac...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#352

Post by david927 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #51
corey_moncure wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a heavy Slashdot user before the takeover, and now Hacker News fills the hole in my browsing that Slashdot left. If you're like me, you'll remember the many articles about the vulnerability of Diebold voting machines. This has always been a concern, since at least the early '00s or before. I guess people have a very selective amnesia.

The original Diebold machines, at least, were purely electronic; they did not leave an auditable paper trail like the Dominion machines do. So we've fortunately learned a lot in the intervening decades and have fixed the glaring security flaws.

We really didn't:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svEuG_ekNT0

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#353

Post by david927 »

kreeben wrote: post #76
rpiguyshy wrote: post #14

before donald trump was ever in office, i always believed that these voting machines are complete bullshit. our entire voting system is bullshit. and it would be easy to fix. these machines have been shown to be massively flawed and vulnerable to hacking/tinkering. again, this was my opinion before donald trump was elected.

>> these machines have been shown to be massively flawed That statement goes against everything I've read about voting in the U.S.A. However, I don't think I have actually read everything. What did you read? Is there a link that I can follow?

Here's a John Oliver episode from a year ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svEuG_ekNT0

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#354

Post by rtkwe »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #333
simonh wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the claims if significant vote fraud were thrown out by courts up and down the land, including the Supreme Court and yet still a huge mob of nutters stormed the Capitol. A mere court finding isn’t going to stop Dominion employees getting death threats. It needs to be clearly and forcefully demonstrated that knowingly and recklessly and maliciously lying to the public with the intention of causing harm to a compan…

The most significant cases were dismissed on procedural issues without reaching the merits. That doesn't necessarily mean they had merit, but arbitrarily many procedural dismissals don't show that one way or the other. I feel like this is the problem with the discourse right now. It's understandable why you're making that argument, because the media has been saying that for months now. Because in fact a large number…

It's still super relevant to note that whereever they were in court Rudy et al were very careful to say we're not alleging or prosecuting fraud here because they could be hit with perjury for lying to the court. When not under the treat of perjury is when the election was a fraud.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#355

Post by purchaceallsus »

wlesieutre wrote: post #305
unanswered wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish someone would honestly respond to the suitcase video, but I haven't seen any attempted defense of it yet. I would really prefer not to believe Giuliani, and yet that video is pretty damn hard to get around. None of it matters, of course, because realpolitik, and the biggest sin of the viking cosplayers was believing that any of this evidence matters.

>I haven't seen any attempted defense of it yet Ok but did you look? https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/georgia-election-officia...

Isn't this contradicted by reporters at the time saying that they were sent home for the night? Do we have video and audio of the event in question?

edit: rather than downvoting me, please engage with the question so others can learn.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#356

Post by earleybird »

rwmj wrote: post #317
ChrisLomont wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, hand filled out ballots are a mess, often illegible, the hanging chad fiasco, etc. With electronic voting, the voter can (should?) see on a screen exactly what they did, and the machine can make multiple exact copies in electronic and paper formats of that exact result. There is far less ambiguity in the physical record once this has been done.

The UK has paper-only ballots and none of this stuff is a problem. (There are no "hanging chads" because ballots are marked by the voter with a pen or pencil on a piece of paper). The polls close at 10pm, the votes are counted overnight by volunteers, and the winner takes office the next morning. It always baffles me that the US system is so complicated.

I've participated as ballot counter in provincial elections (British Columbia) where an 'X' or check mark were valid ways to make a choice on a ballot. It was a very long time ago however my recollection was that the mark was to be on or in the box beside the candidate name. Ballots were excluded but they were exceedingly rare and always in consultation with supervisors. (completely missed the box)

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#357

Post by theluketaylor »

rconti wrote: post #326
rwmj wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has paper-only ballots and none of this stuff is a problem. (There are no "hanging chads" because ballots are marked by the voter with a pen or pencil on a piece of paper). The polls close at 10pm, the votes are counted overnight by volunteers, and the winner takes office the next morning. It always baffles me that the US system is so complicated.

You're telling me out of millions of ballots, none of the pen or pencil markings could be unclear? The reality is, there are always ballots that fall in a grey area. That's being exploited to sow doubt in the uncertainty of an entire election. Hell, same thing happened during Brexit: > The first stage will see all ballot papers - though not actual votes - counted, a process known as verification. > Any ballots which…

Canadian here, and yes, it's basically impossible to mark your ballot wrong for a commonwealth parliamentary election for the simple reason you only vote for a single thing: who should be member of parliament for your riding.

Since there is only a single question there is tons of whitespace between options and you can't accidentally mark selections for one question in the space asking a different one.

I've never had to vote in a referendum like brexit, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn the ballot was more complex that the usual parliamentary election one. Looking at images of the brexit ballot it appears pretty similar to what I'm used to, but with far less white space between options.

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#358

Post by unanswered »

HelloMcFly wrote: post #297
unanswered wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not responding to the argument at all. Scott Adams' credibility is irrelevant. The video was shown for the segments of it depicting actual events as they happened, not for the segments featuring Adams.

Your original comment is flagged and I can't see it so did not watch the video. I believe my comment is relevant to the one I replied to: I do not trust Scott Adams to present his content with any integrity at all, and so sending me a video he clipped together to make a point is not what I'd consider "good evidence". He does not act in good faith, he works backwards from a conclusion. If Steven Miller made a similar…

Corporate wants you to find the difference between these two pictures:

"All black people know each other"

"Everyone I disagree with is the same person"

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#359

Post by asabjorn »

tptacek wrote: post #134

Ken White has been talking about the potential for this suit for a couple weeks now. He spends a lot of time talking about what isn't defamation --- people use defamation suits and threats thereof to chill free speech, and he's a 1st Amendment guy --- but the Dominion cases are apparently examples of very serious defamation cases. The core of defamation is (1) a false statement of purported fact that (2) causes damag…

> The problem is that it's not totally clear whether Giuliani believed any of his crazy-talk. It may actually be the case that Giuliani is just off his rocker. If he himself was sold by the (false) facts he received from others, he is a more difficult defamation target.

In a court case in Antrim county Michigan a judge allowed an audit, which showed voting machine fraud. You can read the report here:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20423772/antrim-c...

Democrats have in the past pointed out how prone Dominion Voting Systems is to cheating, such as presidial primary nominee Amy Klobuchar that was very critical of it in 2019

https://www.klobuchar.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2019/3/ran...

Re: Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani

#360

Post by jansan »

david927 wrote: post #296
rpiguyshy wrote: post #14

before donald trump was ever in office, i always believed that these voting machines are complete bullshit. our entire voting system is bullshit. and it would be easy to fix. these machines have been shown to be massively flawed and vulnerable to hacking/tinkering. again, this was my opinion before donald trump was elected.

Here's a John Oliver special from a year ago that will terrify you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svEuG_ekNT0

John Oliver should not be used for anything other than entertainment.
Post reply on HN