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Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

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Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#351

Post by Dma54rhs »

random5634 wrote: post #21
simpixelated wrote: post #5

Along with the unionization at Google, I think it's a good trend to see them happening at big tech companies. As it says in the article: "Unions are a prominent presence at Amazon in Europe, but the company for years successfully fought off labor organizing efforts in the U.S." It's sad that Amazon, along with FB and Google, etc. have managed to squash unions so completely here in the US. There's a lot of propaganda…

The propaganda unfortunately also comes from folks direct experience with unions. In the US, most unions are public sector. So folks see that Police unions may protect bad apples via union. Teachers unions may care more about teachers including bad ones then teaching kids. We had a famously terrible teacher at my school - unfirable - as kids we thought it was hilarious. As a parent now - not so cool. Non unionized sc…

Schools have been kept and are largely opened during the pandemic in Europe. I think the common understand is that kids need to go to school, there's no way around it.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#352

Post by username90 »

bbddg wrote: post #52
Barrin92 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what I'm astonished by is the degree to which American firms are allowed to sabotage unionisation efforts despite, as I understand it, the US actually having similar protections for workplace assembly as other Western countries. If you tried interfere with unions here in Germany you'd run up against the law, the media and so on very, very quickly, it's one of the things you don't want to screw with.

Lots of states in the US have "right to work" laws which make it much harder to workers to organize unions.

Entirety of EU has right to work laws, that isn't the problem. The problem is that you even need to vote for a union in US instead of just letting workers join them as individuals.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#353

Post by maxerickson »

refurb wrote: post #349
maxerickson wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has been doing okay using that sort of high level planning, where the government supervises a lot of the economy and limits the movement of capital.

That "sort of planning". But are they requiring unions , taxing all companies and preventing capital from fleeing ? No.

China has the strictest capital controls there have ever been.

The other stuff, sure no, but I wondered if you were making a broader point about a controlled economy, which would be a point that China increasingly contradicts.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#354

Post by username90 »

perfmode wrote: post #131
simpixelated wrote: post #5

Along with the unionization at Google, I think it's a good trend to see them happening at big tech companies. As it says in the article: "Unions are a prominent presence at Amazon in Europe, but the company for years successfully fought off labor organizing efforts in the U.S." It's sad that Amazon, along with FB and Google, etc. have managed to squash unions so completely here in the US. There's a lot of propaganda…

where can i learn more about the union activities at amazon in europe?

Unions in Europe represent individuals and not companies. Anyone who wants can join a union and let the union represent them. Therefore there is no point in trying to hurt unionization efforts etc, because there is no switch to flop, workers will slowly go there if they feel they benefit from it.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#355

Post by username90 »

Frondo wrote: post #321
s1artibartfast wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most union workplaces, one of the first contract demands is exclusivity, where the employer can only hire members. This is referred to as a " closed shop" [1] When a closed shop forms, works have a choice to join or leave. Some places allow non-union workers, but they must pay part of their salary to the union. This is called and "agency shop" [2] For example, if you become a police officer and do not choose to jo…

Well, since the Taft-Hartley act of 1947 banned closed shops, I'm not sure that that's really the first of contract demands anymore, at least in the US.

It demands that all members pays a fee to the union, which is essentially the same thing. The big problem is that there can only be one union per workplace in US if at all, so workers have to vote etc. You can't just pick the union fitting yourself best and keep the union as you move between companies, instead USA ties your union to your job like it does everything else. Why tie healthcare, union and a lot of other unrelated things to your job? Doesn't make sense, and as we see unions in USA where they have this nonsense rule are much less popular than unions in Europe where you mostly stick to the same union your entire career.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#356

Post by refurb »

maxerickson wrote: post #353
refurb wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "sort of planning". But are they requiring unions , taxing all companies and preventing capital from fleeing ? No.

China has the strictest capital controls there have ever been. The other stuff, sure no, but I wondered if you were making a broader point about a controlled economy, which would be a point that China increasingly contradicts.

Now China has capital controls but that's a more recent development.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#357

Post by DenisM »

sudosysgen wrote: post #346
MaslowsPyramid wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on purely anecdotal evidence, I agree. I've seen an increased number of supposed "eat the rich" types voicing support for corporate interests, to an almost laughable degree of irony. For instance, Twitter users who have "#eattherich" in their bio saying that social media should be left unregulated because the owners of the platforms should be able to do whatever they want with it.

The way I see it is that among those, they haven't actually been able to form a leftist worldview free of economic liberalism. It's normal, because modern opposing alternatives are basically completely absent from the mainstream.

> haven't actually been able to form a leftist worldview free of economic liberalism

Very good point! I did not think of this at all. Perhaps the collapse of the Soviet Union discredited the planned economy as means of social equalization and they never quite regained their footing.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#358

Post by stjohnswarts »

simpixelated wrote: post #5

Along with the unionization at Google, I think it's a good trend to see them happening at big tech companies. As it says in the article: "Unions are a prominent presence at Amazon in Europe, but the company for years successfully fought off labor organizing efforts in the U.S." It's sad that Amazon, along with FB and Google, etc. have managed to squash unions so completely here in the US. There's a lot of propaganda…

It's hard to compare Google's "union" to this one. This one would be much more like the old factory workers banding together. The people at Amazon make far less than the people at google and often don't have the luxury to think about "societal concerns" they just want to put food on the table. I think all around it's good, but this would be a much different type of union and probably better be much larger or it will get squashed quickly

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#359

Post by joshe »

ianai wrote: post #282
joshe wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be great. I sometimes think that something like a "credible threat of peace" would be useful. "We are forming a union. If you vote for this union, we will allow workers here to chose other unions. We will never get in the way of firing someone. We will never create job roles that don't let workers move laterally or up. You can lay people off. We will not use our members money for political campaigns. Our wor…

Pretty sure that union would be so weak as to be worth disbanding.

Seek to be useful rather than powerful is good advice for people and organizations.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#360

Post by sudosysgen »

DenisM wrote: post #357
sudosysgen wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it is that among those, they haven't actually been able to form a leftist worldview free of economic liberalism. It's normal, because modern opposing alternatives are basically completely absent from the mainstream.

> haven't actually been able to form a leftist worldview free of economic liberalism Very good point! I did not think of this at all. Perhaps the collapse of the Soviet Union discredited the planned economy as means of social equalization and they never quite regained their footing.

There is actually a lot more to non-liberal economics than planned economies, but certainly the collapse of the Soviet Union would play a part in it.

If I had to analyze the root cause of it though, I'd say the proximate cause really is Cultural Hegemony. Pretty much every piece of media and every interaction you have assumes liberal economics so much that it is very hard to even realize that you are working within that framework. An unknown known, kinda.

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