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Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

joemorrison.substack.com

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Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#351

Post by wlesieutre »

jhowell wrote: post #343
wpietri wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's fundamental relationship with users is statistical, and I think it shows. They're very good at optimizing metrics; their search, for example has remained the leader 20+ years on. In that world, if you lose a few users or give a bad experience, well, there are plenty more where those came from, and the ones who leave will often come back. I think they mistakenly bring that attitude to their consumer businesse…

> very good at optimizing metrics... shoot themselves in the foot with some short-sighted action. Their optimization strategy informed them to shoot their customers in the foot.

And maybe all their metrics say that in the grand scheme of things, shooting some customers in the foot is the better strategy compared to not shooting them in the foot. Sometimes via deliberate price hikes, sometimes via shoddy support channels and discontinued products.

The big questions are whether their metrics factor in customers who avoid google's products to begin with, knowing they might end up getting shot in the foot, or whether they have a moral obligation to not shoot their customers even if they can make more money that way.

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#352

Post by bloomark »

wpietri wrote: post #326
notyourwork wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any store that uses a rewards, loyalty card or phone number when you checkout does the same. I'm not sure why Amazon is the bad guy when grocery stores have been distributing private brands of mainstream products and shopper loyalty has been used to optimize revenue streams. Amazon does it on a bigger scale, not sure the scale makes it right or wrong though.

Your theory is that if other large companies do something, it must be morally acceptable? Even if that's true, which I'm not persuaded of, Amazon's enormous market power makes a big difference. As a consumer, I don't want Amazon to "optimize revenue streams" when that reduces the reward to market participants to be innovative and deliver high quality.

> Your theory is that if other large companies do something, it must be morally acceptable?

Why did your comment single out Amazon and not the practice of 'immorally' tracking customers?

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#353

Post by eggsome »

harrisonjackson wrote: post #315
wpietri wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's fundamental relationship with users is statistical, and I think it shows. They're very good at optimizing metrics; their search, for example has remained the leader 20+ years on. In that world, if you lose a few users or give a bad experience, well, there are plenty more where those came from, and the ones who leave will often come back. I think they mistakenly bring that attitude to their consumer businesse…

Every AWS product I've used has gotten cheeper over the years (excluding the free tier / beta free periods)

This is true per "equivalent" unit of generic computing, but some older instance types have gone up in price (presumably to encourage people to migrate their stuff onto newer hardware).

This is completely reasonable - but a pain when you have a box that works perfectly and you have to upgrade the software to cope with a new hypervisor driver/layer.

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#354

Post by glenngillen »

eggsome wrote: post #353
harrisonjackson wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every AWS product I've used has gotten cheeper over the years (excluding the free tier / beta free periods)

This is true per "equivalent" unit of generic computing, but some older instance types have gone up in price (presumably to encourage people to migrate their stuff onto newer hardware). This is completely reasonable - but a pain when you have a box that works perfectly and you have to upgrade the software to cope with a new hypervisor driver/layer.

Not just compute. Storage and data transfer have also trended lower in my experience.

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#355

Post by justinzollars »

silentsea90 wrote: post #159
justinzollars wrote: post #73

I traveled to Beijing and Shanghai and Google maps was effectively worthless. Apple Maps on the other hand was accurate and included accurate mass transit directions.

Perhaps has to do with Google not really being a thing in China coz ethics.

for my benefit I'm Glad apple maps worked!

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#356

Post by shp0ngle »

From my experience, OpenStreetMap is getting significantly better in the "long tail", as big companies (Grab, Uber, Apple) are using it and then contributing the issues back and reusing it in their proprietary maps.

Still, they are no match for Google Maps.

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#357

Post by regularfry »

multjoy wrote: post #311
danielheath wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture, and the reputation it earns. I’m no amazon apologist, but one thing I trust them to do is keep my things running as they are.

And what’s your contingency if they decide that they’re going to hike the price because Jeff’s underwater lair has sprung a leak?

This got downvoted for (I presume) triteness, but there's an important underlying point: Amazon's actions (or anyone else's) don't have to look rational from the outside to really mess up your day.

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#358

Post by jawartak »

dmje wrote: post #331

Here's a little story: I run a tiny digital agency. Our clients are all non technical. They all want maps of some form. Until Google did their infamous pricing thing, all was well: we could set up as many nice embedded maps on websites as needed, clients all happy. Then the price / key requirement thing happened. Turns out you have to navigate through the absolute hell hole that is Google Cloud Console or whatever th…

Have you tried Stadia Maps? It sounds like precisely what you're looking for.

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#359

Post by porknubbins »

reaperducer wrote: post #239
porknubbins wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Apple maps day one I was an iPhone user living in Tokyo and Apple maps was like “what are trains? Here’s a 20 mile driving route through Tokyo”. Google maps was gone and I’m not sure whether to its on Apple or Google but my ability to get around was impaired significantly.

I was an iPhone user living in Tokyo and Apple maps was like “what are trains? Apple Maps has had Tokyo transit data since 2016. Tokyo got transit data years before many other cities.

The Apple maps debut in 2012 was when Google maps was removed from the Apple store. Maybe there was a way for Apple maps to do train/subway directions then but the UI was ridiculously bad- giant stations equivalent to Grand Central were hardly visible and highway names were highlighted.

Re: Google Maps' Moat Is Evaporating

#360

Post by Someone »

jorvi wrote: post #308
Someone wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, say they wanted to support this for most of the world, what would look different to outsiders? Waiting to support part of the world until they can support all of the targeted regions would deprive users of data they have for, I guess, years. So, it should be a gradual rollout. Where should they start? I would think it’s easiest in richer countries, where it’s easier to obtain reliable data, and updates thereof. A…

By your logic, Denmark or The Netherlands would have been the prime location for bicycle routing to be introduced. Not only are the governmental infrastructure data sources of pristine quality, those places also see the most amount of cycling hours in the world . So they would rapidly get more data that they could fine-tune their algorithms with.

That surprised me, too. All the data probably already is in https://www.opencyclemap.org/?zoom=7&lat=52.65153&lon=8.9347... (aside: look how limited Danish cycling infra is compared to the Netherlands and Belgium)

Maybe routing is too hard on such a dense network, or it’s just that they’re an American company.

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