‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#351

Post by tomp » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

slg wrote: post #120

googlryas wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the point is that the corroborations are all on the lesser or non-complaints of the article, not the most egregious ones. To make an extreme example, posting a series of actual facts that culminate in aliens have visited earth doesn't make the latter assertion any more true. edit: Sorry, I'm the poster from above, I just posted from my phone which has a different account logged in that I originally intended to gi…

The egregious complaints are corroborated by the other egregious complaints. Let's use another example in which evidence is hard to find: sexual assault. If one woman accused Bill Cosby of sexual assault, the burden of proof for her story is high. She would need some pretty strong evidence to get Cosby charged let alone convicted. She probably wouldn't even receive coverage in the mainstream media without some other…

> Each individual's story is corroborated by someone else having a very similar story.

Our culture is full of anecdotes and stories that serve as a warning why this is a very bad idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#352

Post by aparsons » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

generalizations wrote: post #248

throwmylifawy wrote: post #214

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

It seems like what you're saying is entirely possible. However, where I disagree is that you seem to expect us to simply "face the truth" that the discrimination exists; you're deploring the existence of alternate possibilities! > Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion might just not be good enough for the job and then just blame discrimination rat…

This is the problem posed by “SJW” entities in a nutshell. Of course racism exists, and AAs have been one of the big targets for decades.

But even considering another alternative explanation to something related to discrimination gets you on the list of racists/deserving-of-cancellation/etc. There is always room for debate, especially in a case like this where information is sparse. Forcibly shutting down anyone who wants to exercise their thinking is just socially acceptable censorship.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#353

Post by i-write-comment » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

baryphonic wrote: post #332

bellevue wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. I saw some of the shit posted about this on Cryptocurrency forums when Coinbase posted their weird tirade about wanting to be "neutral and apolitical" with regards to social justice and a few days ago about how everything is a lie as they tried to pre-empt this article. It all feels of gaslighting and has a shit ton of people buying into it. At the end of the day, the best thing for Coinbase employees to…

> At the end of the day, the best thing for Coinbase employees to do is to jump ship to a competitor (I for one, am happy to give a referral to any Coinbase employee who is leaving due to all this) - but absolutely vile that they would try to buy-out all POC in the company. What makes you think POC are equivalent with woke activists? That seems a bit like stereotyping to me. It also seems to contradict actual data.[1…

This comment is a good example of an insidious trend that has existed throughout America's history, which tries to offload any agitation against racial discrimination onto white outsiders. In the past, race riots and protests were often blamed on Northern abolitionists, communists and Jews, basically "white agitators who aren't from here". You see this same trend today, when protests are blamed on Soros-paid white agitators from "out of state" and Antifa.

It's intended to mollify any concerns of well-meaning whites that POC might actually really be upset with racial discrimination, and actually want significant change beyond superficial proposals.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#354

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

neilv wrote: post #305

throwmylifawy wrote: post #214

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

I'm glad you spoke up, and maybe I and others should've. There are some kinds of topics that I can immediately guess will invite certain kinds of comments on HN, and I've learned to just take a deep breath and ignore them. (If it gets really bad, I go catch up on that other Web site that does over-the-top criticism of HN, so that I don't feel like the only one.) On rare occasions, I've tried to engage some of the, bu…

[deleted]

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#355

Post by roenxi » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:30 AM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #286

SamReidHughes wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Premise 3 was not implied.

Then why is he "very confused at how a tech company could be accused of racism"?

My definition of racism (which I did not share, despite it being the source of much debate) is discrimination against a particular group or groups on the basis of their heritage (ie, stuff outside their control).

So I was confused, because companies (like Coinbase) are being asked to discriminate by raising black employees to an especially high-status position vs, eg, Asians, then getting called racist when they do not.

But if the definition of racism was redefined to "unequal distribution of privileges between white people and people of color" then the accusations make sense.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#356

Post by aparsons » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:30 AM UTC

adjkant wrote: post #238

throwmylifawy wrote: post #214

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

Very well said. People seem to be trying to apply a criminal prosecution level standard for proof/evidence, one that is almost never applied to other companies on non hot button issues or generally on HN. You highlighted the specific hoops people are jumping through well. I hope maybe people can examine why they are so motivated to use this hypocritical double standard to defend this company they have no direct ties…

Can it not he argued that the recent phenomenon of cancelling / treating those accused of these acts as criminals and trying to ruin their livelihoods, means applying a criminal level of evidence is warranted?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#357

Post by ramraj07 » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:31 AM UTC

dstola wrote: post #159

slg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What else can they do if they are really innocent? Innocent of what exactly? At a certain point whether the leadership of Coinbase is racist or not doesn't matter. What matters is their actions. The article says "roughly three-quarters of the Black employees" left the company over a 6 month span due to feelings of being discriminated against. That isn't an accusation. It is a fact. It also isn't something that will…

Babysitting employees is not really a function of the employers. If people wish to leave it's their choice

Yep, who cares that racism and sexism can go on and create a disproportionately hostile environment for just some people right! "I don't see anything bad happening to me, so everyone shouldn't care either!"

Thankfully even if the world doesn't act that way, the majority (for now) aren't evil enough to also blatantly proclaim that this is also fine.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#358

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:32 AM UTC

whakim wrote: post #347

edbob wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article fails to mention the generous 4-6 month severance package that was being offered at the same time as the relocation of the division. Of course a bunch of employees will take the 6 months paid vacation over moving. This is the level of dishonesty that I've come to expect from the NYT. Any fact that does not fit their narrative basically doesn't exist. Better treatment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=…

Do you have inside information that this was the case? Because I'm sure that would be quite compelling to hear. To clarify, I assume the generous severance you're referring to is not the generous severance Coinbase offered employees as part of their no-politics-at-work approach, because the timelines don't match.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#359

Post by sumedh » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:32 AM UTC

dstola wrote: post #159

slg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What else can they do if they are really innocent? Innocent of what exactly? At a certain point whether the leadership of Coinbase is racist or not doesn't matter. What matters is their actions. The article says "roughly three-quarters of the Black employees" left the company over a 6 month span due to feelings of being discriminated against. That isn't an accusation. It is a fact. It also isn't something that will…

Babysitting employees is not really a function of the employers. If people wish to leave it's their choice

> Babysitting employees is not really a function of the employers.

If an employee was sexually harassing female employees, should the company do something or should it not babysit employees?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#360

Post by tomp » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:34 AM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #277

SamReidHughes wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he's defining the meaning as you put it, or compatibly with it. And taking the claims in the article at face value -- not people's feelings, but the specific facts asserted -- it's clear Coinbase hasn't been persecuting black people.

No, this is exactly what he said, laid out in argument form: Premise 1: Tech companies are often accused of racism (any, not coinbase, neither of us mentioned coinbase) Premise 2: Tech companies often contain a much larger % of Asians, a minority Premise 3: (implied) having a disproportionate % of any one minority makes you non-racist Conclusion: Therefore Tech companies are not racist The conclusion does not follow…

> You can be racist about other minorities even while enthusiastically supporting one minority group

How do you in your mind construct a person with this kind of mindset? Historically, a lot of "racism" or other kinds of ethnic "othering" hatred was between very similar ethnicities - e.g. Nazis and Jews, or Japanese & Chinese & Korean. Even nowadays the "racist" far factions in the US are "white supremacist", and dislike pretty much everyone across the board - Jews, blacks, lations, ...

So my prior is that it would be highly unlikely to find a non-trivial number of people who are racist against blacks yet pro Asians, let alone a whole industry (in California, a generally left-wing state!).