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Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

ox.ac.uk

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Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#351

Post by ShakataGaNai »

ta8645 wrote: post #333

I find it disheartening how many people speculate about possible long term side effects of exposure to Covid, even in asymptomatic cases. Yet those same people seemingly have no reservations about injecting a brand new drug into their veins.

That doesn't really make sense. The two things are quite different. How vaccines work and how COVID works are apples and oranges. Do vaccines have potential side effects? Yes. And of course we don't know them. But let's be honest...most of us regular people aren't getting any of these for quite some time. They are going to go to people on the front line and most at risk first.

If you're a front line worker, like a doctor or nurse in a hospital, your chances of getting real COVID with real damage are very high. The long term effects of that are known to be bad. So any long terms effects of the vaccine are more than likely to be way way less dangerous. Also vaccine is, so far, not lethal which makes it a way better option.

Eventually we, the general population, will learn more about these potential side effects of the vaccines and start to gain access to said vaccines. Until then let's not go all anti-vaxxer and pretend we think vaccines give you autism.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#353

Post by ta8645 »

kashprime wrote: post #344
ta8645 wrote: post #333

I find it disheartening how many people speculate about possible long term side effects of exposure to Covid, even in asymptomatic cases. Yet those same people seemingly have no reservations about injecting a brand new drug into their veins.

It's a simple choice really; being infected with Covid means your body creates thousands of antibodies to fight the virus. Some of those will likely go on and attack your own cells and cause post-covid symptoms. The vaccines only present part of one protein, so not as many antibodies created, less scope for after effects. Key will be seeing when Pfizer and Moderna release their safety data for their testing cohorts.…

Even if you could guarantee that there are no unintended consequences to this drug that was developed over a weekend, which you can't, you must still put a great deal of faith in the motives, incentives, and competence of an entire supply chain.

This is not without risk.

There are a lot of unknowns with this brand new vaccine, yet many of us have personal examples of people in our lives shrugging off a bout of Covid with ease. It's not a completely irrational choice to wait for a few years before taking this vaccine.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#355

Post by est31 »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #350
throwawayiionqz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another huge differentiator is price. At $3 to $4, many countries will jump on board ASAP and stay away from the expensive vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna.

Price is not an issue for rich countries. 500 Million vaccines for USA leaving kids and some other out...cost, what $25 Billion? Peanuts, compared to the damage it did /can do. Same for USA, EU, Japan, CA, Australia etc.

Poor countries are hit by covid-19 as well. Those folks deserve a vaccine too. Even if you don't care about the Humanitarian side of this, the west benefits from that directly by not having giant reservoirs for the virus.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#356

Post by jaynetics »

ciceryadam wrote: post #98
jaynetics wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only in the richest countries. Due to the totally different age pyramid and thus few severe cases, vaccination might not be worth it for the poorest countries even at this lower price.

Lockdown/social distancing hurts the economies everywhere. India and south east Asia has a huge population of street vendors that depend on buyers being out in the streets.

By "poorest" I meant countries like CAR or DRC, maybe that wasn't clear.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#357

Post by ta8645 »

ShakataGaNai wrote: post #351
ta8645 wrote: post #333

I find it disheartening how many people speculate about possible long term side effects of exposure to Covid, even in asymptomatic cases. Yet those same people seemingly have no reservations about injecting a brand new drug into their veins.

That doesn't really make sense. The two things are quite different. How vaccines work and how COVID works are apples and oranges. Do vaccines have potential side effects? Yes. And of course we don't know them. But let's be honest...most of us regular people aren't getting any of these for quite some time. They are going to go to people on the front line and most at risk first. If you're a front line worker, like a do…

> let's not go all anti-vaxxer and pretend we think vaccines give you autism

I agree with most of what you said, but equating rational skepticism with anti-vaxxer paranoia is a bit of a dick move.

Any drug should be approached with great caution, and we should be willing to see its faults even when we're primed to strongly wish for relief from the grip of Covid lockdowns.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#358

Post by dash2 »

guipsp wrote: post #274
dri_ft wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With weapons, it costs money to kill someone; with medicine, it costs money to save them.

Only to the extent that you don't value human life. If you value human life, then you'll see that both have costs associated.

This isn't responding to the OP's point, which was that war profiteering (making money by providing weapons to kill people) is morally different from selling vaccines (making money by providing medicines to save people's lives).

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#359

Post by onetimemanytime »

est31 wrote: post #355
onetimemanytime wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price is not an issue for rich countries. 500 Million vaccines for USA leaving kids and some other out...cost, what $25 Billion? Peanuts, compared to the damage it did /can do. Same for USA, EU, Japan, CA, Australia etc.

Poor countries are hit by covid-19 as well. Those folks deserve a vaccine too. Even if you don't care about the Humanitarian side of this, the west benefits from that directly by not having giant reservoirs for the virus.

Plus, they travel to the rich countries.New vaccines are coming in. China will probably use their own, India will copy one and costs next to nothing. Donations will make sure everyone has one.

Re: Oxford University breakthrough on global COVID-19 vaccine

#360

Post by dash2 »

anoncake wrote: post #232
WalterBright wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pay them their costs and not one cent more. I prefer a system where it's very worthwhile for people to risk a lot and work hard to save my life. If it was all about altruism, I doubt a vaccine would be developed for many more years.

You don't even need altruism. Vaccine researchers want the pandemic to end like everyone else plus they're interested in vaccine research anyway.

I doubt if vaccine research can be done just by a group of interested people. It's not a paper-and-pencil affair like pure maths. You need a lot of computers, drug manufacturing machinery; then you have to run big, well-organized RCTs. If you've got an example of volunteer-driven health research at scale, I'd like to hear about it.
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