Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland • Hacker News Board

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#351

Post by patrickk » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 7:29 AM UTC

harha wrote: post #301

patrickk wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cause of the internet seems to be a mix of the mobile frequency auctions that didn’t leave any money for a good network combined with low competition. The version I read for Germany was that when the mobile broadband spectrum was originally auctioned off, the purchase price for the spectrum was too high. So the pensioners and other investors who bought in demanded a juicy return on investment despite overpaying…

I have the impression that corruption and being overly friendly towards big corporations seems to be quite the issue, compared to other places I know well the infrastructure is pretty bad (though other large European countries aren't much better - UK, France). The auction could have easily been fixed, by imposing and enforcing strict rules on maximum prices, minimum coverage and mandating in-country roaming. After al…

Yes the copper story instead of fiber optic is really important to understand. I did some digging after suffering through poor internet in a major German city for some years now.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#352

Post by mschuster91 » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 12:05 PM UTC

thu2111 wrote: post #334

mschuster91 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more at play. 1) our train length is limited - see the parallel comment. UIC limits our trains to 750m top, we don't have the space required for train yards that can handle longer trains, and the signal blocks are too short apart to handle trains longer than that (basic railway safety, a train must always have enough free space in front so that it can brake from full speed to zero in case of crossing a red li…

How many private rail freight companies are there in Europe? The railfreight firms I know are all semi or fully state backed. As for the innovation thing, the report I quoted literally says they can't keep up with road innovation. It doesn't say there are no new ideas in railways ever, but, who in SBB or DB is really going to go the extra mile to fight for some cool new idea? Truck firms are far smaller and there are…

> How many private rail freight companies are there in Europe? The railfreight firms I know are all semi or fully state backed.

Germany has enough of them to fill a couple pages: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_deutscher_Eisenbahngesel...

The vast majority is handled by state-owned DB Cargo though: https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/568662/umfrag...

> It doesn't say there are no new ideas in railways ever, but, who in SBB or DB is really going to go the extra mile to fight for some cool new idea?

And... what should these be, ETCS and automated couplers aside? The vast majority of truck innovation are related to electrification (which most major European rail corridors are already, and the last mile can be handled by the new dual power locomotives) and driver assistance (autonomous driving, dead spot detectors, emergency automated brakes, driver cab comfort).

> Truck firms are far smaller and there are way more of them, so people can conceivably get ahead by doing things differently

Yeah, they cheat on the safety rules, and enjoy that every business has a road connection while very few businesses have a rail connection so it's easier to do computer assisted magic in scheduling.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#353

Post by JAlexoid » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 3:29 PM UTC

thu2111 wrote: post #334

mschuster91 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more at play. 1) our train length is limited - see the parallel comment. UIC limits our trains to 750m top, we don't have the space required for train yards that can handle longer trains, and the signal blocks are too short apart to handle trains longer than that (basic railway safety, a train must always have enough free space in front so that it can brake from full speed to zero in case of crossing a red li…

How many private rail freight companies are there in Europe? The railfreight firms I know are all semi or fully state backed. As for the innovation thing, the report I quoted literally says they can't keep up with road innovation. It doesn't say there are no new ideas in railways ever, but, who in SBB or DB is really going to go the extra mile to fight for some cool new idea? Truck firms are far smaller and there are…

There are more rail companies in Europe, than in US. If you bothered looking at the UK, you'd notice that they alone has as many freight companies at US.

In US rail companies aren't exactly known for innovation either, because of extreme distances they haul and already efficient diesel-electric locomotives - there's no practical pressures to innovate at all.

There are multiple reasons why rail traffic in Europe and US is different, but none of it is because "socialism".

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#354

Post by JAlexoid » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 3:48 PM UTC

dtwest wrote: post #322

Retric wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US population density is hardly the issue for two reasons, first nobody wants high speed rail in Alaska. But secondly high speed rail is between cities not every little podunk town. Linking Richmond, DC, Baltimore, NYC, Boston is a single 550 mile high speed rail line, which connects over 10% of the entire Americana population.

I mentioned the Northeast Corridor because it is the most viable location to have passenger rail in the US. But even there presents some issues (which I may not have explained very well in my original post). I disagree with your assessment because American density is very different than European density. If you look at Google Earth, there is almost continuous suburban development along the entire Northeast route. In…

American cities are clustered as much as European and there's hardly a good reason why high speed rail is impossible. To the point that there literally is a private company that built a high speed link between Orlando and Miami.

As for the experience of driving to a train station, that's compounded x times by going to an airport.

But in the end the lack of use stems more from discomfort, than anything else. Having high speed connection from Poughkeepsie/Albany to NYC would open up Hudson Valley to commuters decades ago, not a boom of Zoomtowns today (Kingston, NY, Beacon, NY)

The overall infrastructure is crap in US and that is the primary reason for poor use of it. (I mean, FFS, old Tappan Zee Bridge didn't even have pedestrian walkway! While being the only available crossing for miles)

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#355

Post by JAlexoid » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 3:51 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #311

yitianjian wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Northeast has a density comparable to Europe. I do agree on the culture issue, however - Americans definitely prefer cars by default. Although in the Washington-Philadelphia-NYC-Boston corridor it may be possible, if there is ever a culture of large public works again.

Europeans prefers cars when the train options are poor too. Improve the trains, and people will eventually wake up to them.

I don't know why Americans think that they are so special.

Yes - Europeans do prefer the optimal transport option (cost, speed, comfort, etc)

Americans aren't special and many European places rely on cars or busses for transport.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#356

Post by JAlexoid » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 3:55 PM UTC

atmosx wrote: post #248

ggm wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you would be willing to pay the amount of taxes you would need to, to completely redo the railways haha. This premise feels wrong: The Swiss, German, Chinese, Spanish experience is that people pay to have high speed rail services, and the G20 economies in that list pay high marginal rates of taxes just fine, for this outcome. The "you" here is conditionally the "you" of current social mores America. I…

I find that perplexing about US politics in general. Any proposal on taxes and social benefits, throws off people that at a first glance shouldn't. Maybe large part of the voting base are millionaires.

It's because corruption is so rife here.

It's blatant and widespread.

The only respite from corruption in US - the government is severely restricted.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#357

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Fri, Oct 23, 2020, 8:04 PM UTC

folli wrote: post #202

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how the more expensive providers can still have customers. Same network, same conditions, different label on the box, 3x the price, at a price point where it should matter to most people...

It's not the same network. There are three providers in Switzerland. From my own experience the most expensive one (Swisscom, by whom this article is) has much better coverage in the mountaineous areas compared to the other two.

There are two other providers, but I was referring to the Swisscom resellers, most notably Wingo (owned by Swisscom itself).

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#358

Post by RajuVarghese » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 6:48 AM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #347

RajuVarghese wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 11 million millionaires in the US which is approx 3.3% of the population. Polls show that many more people expect to become millionaires real soon. In fact, 60% expect to become wealthy during their lifetimes. The optimism that one sees in the US is commendable but it reflects itself in the resistance to taxing the rich. After all, why would you vote to increase taxes if it is going to negatively affect you…

Ouf that survey is weak - being a millionaire in the US does not make one wealthy. A lot of people end up having more than 1mil in assets by the time they retire simply due to real estate, this isn't the case for everyone but being a millionaire doesn't mean you're not still somewhere around the midpoint of the middle class in terms of income.

That's why I used separate terms, ie millionaire and wealthy. Being a millionaire requires that you have more than 1m as assets after taking into account your debts. That is easy but being wealthy is more subjective. Polls have shown that people consider 'being wealthy' if you have a wealthy lifestyle or in excess of USD x million. Currently x is about 2.6.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#359

Post by dtwest » Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 1:07 PM UTC

JAlexoid wrote: post #354

dtwest wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned the Northeast Corridor because it is the most viable location to have passenger rail in the US. But even there presents some issues (which I may not have explained very well in my original post). I disagree with your assessment because American density is very different than European density. If you look at Google Earth, there is almost continuous suburban development along the entire Northeast route. In…

American cities are clustered as much as European and there's hardly a good reason why high speed rail is impossible. To the point that there literally is a private company that built a high speed link between Orlando and Miami. As for the experience of driving to a train station, that's compounded x times by going to an airport. But in the end the lack of use stems more from discomfort, than anything else. Having hi…

American cities are clustered differently than European ones, it's not something that can be easily quantified, it really takes some time looking at the maps to understand what I am talking about, as it doesn't seem like my explanations are doing the job. Looking at the footprints this way is simplistic but maybe helpful:

https://external-preview.redd.it/W-GAALExjeE8w0aXg7Kh0gOAHcl...

For example, Paris is one of Europe's largest cities and yet it has a footprint comparable to Cleveland, a city with less than 1/5 the population. Meanwhile, the population density of Ohio is over 5 times as high as France.

I never said high speed rail is impossible, just that there are a unique set of challenges in developing such a network in the US. I'm a huge fan of public transportation and HSR, we just need to be realistic and pair it with smart urban/regional development.

Re: Stable 1.2 Gigabit/s Internet achieved in moving train in Switzerland

#360

Post by kortilla » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 3:30 AM UTC

4ggr0 wrote: post #299

kortilla wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds good. Don’t make us over in California pay for it though.

Why not?

Because we get absolutely no benefit from it. If you want to have a massive government program that primarily benefits 3-4 states, don’t force Californians to shoulder that burden. That’s what state-level taxes are for.