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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#351

Post by dathinab »

dx87 wrote: post #49
jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Nintendo says you shouldn't use anything except 1st party cables with the Switch. There were articles a couple of years ago talking about Switches being bricked. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/08/heres-why-nintendo-sw...

Note that most bricking was with 3rd party docks (due to the Switch not so standard conform HDMIish + charging alternate mode).

Bricking your switch with a "pure" charger mostly only happens with but fully standard conform chargers used with the wrong cable.

Most (all?) Hight voltage/amper chargers like e.g. for laptops work just fine on the switch.

Through it's a bit more troublesome for the dock.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#352

Post by danhor »

floatingatoll wrote: post #315
dheera wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chargers that use standard plugs should also be made to support the standard or they should be held legally responsible. In this particular case I think even well-known name brand chargers which follow standards (Apple, Anker) are breaking the Nintendo, and that's unacceptable.

Nintendo’s Switch plug happens to physically and electrically seem to accept USB-C charger connectors, but it’s not a USB-C plug, and the Switch should not be considered compatible just because it uses a similar plug. Nintendo should have taken more steps with their charger to restrict the Switch to authorized chargers only, rather than permitting unsupported chargers (such as standard USB-C ones) from being able to…

All (or most) of the reports of switches being bricked stem for 3rd party docks, where the dock is at fault and using 9v for signal pins, see https://hackaday.com/2019/08/04/the-not-quite-usb-c-of-ninte...

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#353

Post by danhor »

jaypeg25 wrote: post #307
floatingatoll wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

what about the switch pro controller? I'll sometimes charge it on whatever usb-c cable is nearby when I'm gaming and the controller starts to die. Is that OK?

The pro controller doesn't use PD, so there's very little risk to destroy anything with a somewhat compliant charger. (There are some out there that repurpose normal USB-A for higher voltages, but they're very rare)

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#354

Post by joshstrange »

japhyr wrote: post #275
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #37

It's honestly such a complete joke it's not even funny anymore. My USB-C MacBook Pro with it's pathetic two ports that my work bought for me is now old enough that the battery is starting to fail and we're still in a world where this single cable for power, screen and ports just doesn't seem to really exist. I'm starting to be convinced the port is fundamentally flawed, dongles with multiple ports are never reliable…

I tried some cheaper, smaller hubs for my ~2018 macbook pro 13", and nothing worked well. They either didn't work with an external monitor, or they did but they interfered with wifi. I finally bought a CalDigit TS3 Plus. It was way more than I had hoped to have to spend on a hub, but it has worked without issue for over a year now. https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus/

+1 for the TS3 Plus. I spent A LOT of time looking around at the dock/hub state of affairs when I got my 2018 MBP 15" because I wanted to drive 3-4 external monitors and wanted as few cables as possible. The CalDigit drives my 2 2K monitors (but can drive higher, at least 4K IIRC) via DisplayPort and then I plug in 1-2 other Thunderbolt 3 -> DisplayPort (or HDMI for my older monitor).

From the hub (read: 1 TB3 cable plugged into my MBP) I get:

* Gigabit ethernet * PD to my laptop * 1 DisplayPort (which I use to drive 1 monitor) * Digital Optical (I don't use it) * 1 TB3 port (which I use to drive the other monitor with a TB3->DP cable) * 1 USB-C 10Gbps port * 1 USB-C 5Gbps port * 5 USB3 5Gbps ports (old square style) * SD card reader * Headphones/Mic output/input

It is wonderful to plug in 1 cable and get my power for my laptop, internet, monitors, webcam, wired mouse/keyboard, Lightning cable for iOS development, Micro-usb for Android development, external SSD for CCC backups, and label printer (and probably something else I'm forgetting). I just want to reiterate, all of that from ONE cable. It's pretty amazing.

This is, by far, the best setup I've ever had and I have never had a problem with it in the 2+ years that I've been using it. I picked mine up for $299.99 and it's worth every penny. I see it's $250 on Amazon right now and if this thing died today I would (after a tiny bit of research) re-buy it immediately.

Here is the product page: https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus/

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#355

Post by floatboth »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #244
chorsestudios wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this still occur with the latest version of MacOS?

From my understanding it's a motherboard layout/cooling issue. Not going to fix that with software.

Definitely possible to limit the wattage received on that side in firmware.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#356

Post by dathinab »

astura wrote: post #310
jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

Well, tfa mentions the Switch in particular as having potential issues with some chargers: >Other devices, like the Nintendo Switch, only partially support the standard, and some unsupported chargers have bricked devices, reportedly due to the Switch’s maximum voltage being exceeded. It also mentions issues with some devices/ports supporting "Power Delivery" and some not, and no way to tell them apart by just looking…

Btw. It's only unsupported third party docks and chargers which themselves are not standard compiland.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#357

Post by floatboth »

thrower123 wrote: post #155
izacus wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you forget that there were at least 10 differente incompatible standards on how the device told the charger to pull more power.

What is different about that with USB-C?

Obviously: PD existing. And most devices, even those that have custom modes (e.g. OnePlus Warp), support PD too.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#358

Post by billpg »

yyx wrote: post #233
billpg wrote: post #141

A few years ago, I had a phone with a micro-USB port, along with a few tablets, portable batteries and other gadgets, all using micro-USB. I had chargers around the house, in my car and at my desk at work. Life was good. Then I upgraded by phone, to one with a USB-C port. Most of my chargers had a single USB port, so I would need to detach the cable if I wanted to switch device. That's if I had a cable to hand. I had…

It would have been great to have micro-USB in the shape of USB-C. Without all those new features and extra pins so manufacturer could replace the port just by soldering to the same 5 traces. This could've been over within a year.

I was surprised to find the converters I purchased were so big because of the electronics inside. I had imagined a converter would just need to be a micro-USB socket and a USB-C plug with some wires joining the two together.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#359

Post by danhor »

dathinab wrote: post #343
oso2k wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t found this to be true. I’ve used 4 or more different chargers. A couple off-brand USB-C chargers, USB-C dock/charger, Apple USB-C chargers, USB-C to USB 2.0/3.0 cables with 1A, 2.4A, 2.5A chargers. All worked without issue. In fact, I left the Nintendo wall wart at home (I usually travel for work) and just bring along a USB-C to USB cable with me.

Yes only with either of following you might be in danger: - A dock, the alternate mode used isn't fully standard conform and prone to fry your switch. - A unlucky combination of cheap but fully standard conform charger with bad cable with switch.

The issue with docks were very non-compliant 3rd party docks which used 9 V for signal lines, which is way to high: https://hackaday.com/2019/08/04/the-not-quite-usb-c-of-ninte...

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#360

Post by floatboth »

crote wrote: post #252
josho wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good (read expensive) dongle will work fine. I have one that reliably powers 2 monitors (a 5k and a 4k), 1gb network and powers my macbook. I think the real problem is we get a lot of cheap products coming from China with very little quality control. QC is poor because they have no incentive to build in quality. E.g. you likely don't realize how flaky the dongle is until after the 30 day return policy, the branding…

I own a 4k @ 60Hz monitor. If I were to buy a laptop, I'd like to connect it and a bunch of USB devices via a single USB C cable. Easy, right? Except that the monitor only supports DisplayPort 1.2. 4k60 requires a bandwidth of 12.54 Gbit/s. DP 1.2 consists of four data lanes, each providing 4.32 GBit/s, so my monitor requires four full lanes. DP 1.3 and up provide at least 7.48 Gbit/s, so 4k60 would only require two…

Yep, docks are known not to request 4 lanes for DP even when there's only a display plugged in. In fact even dongles that don't have anything other than a display output on them sometimes only ever request 2 lanes, sadly.
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