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Laid Off, Now What?

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Re: Laid Off, Now What?

#351

Post by greyhair »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #320
ctvo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't believe this is how interviewing works in this field. Everyone in every other respectable field (and ones that pay as well or better, and have worse consequences for hiring a "bad fit") seems entitled to some baseline level of respect and recognition for their experience and work. Having some smarmy piece of shit ask questions from Jr.-year computer science should be justifiable grounds for a broken nose. T…

>For 300k+ a year? I'll find a way to deal with it. I would too even for half that but unfortunately, in Europe, lots of the fancy tech corps. are adopting the SV style mult-day take home project/on-site interview grind but only paying $65-85k/year. I'm still thinking whether I can make it in this field till retirement(FIRE is out of the question at this pay) or if I should just change to something else while I still…

Multi-day take home projects? Seriously? Just say no that unless they are going to compensate you at contractor rate of at least $120/hour. That is a ridiculous ask, and if all engineers just said no and walked away, they would get what they deserved, only the grovelers willing to say yes.

The all day interview thing is not new. When I finally landed an onsite interview with Bell Labs in 1984, it ran from 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM with a break for lunch (that they provided). Every position I have interviewed with since then has been an all day affair.

Remember, interviewing is partly for skills, but mostly for attitude and personality. Are you going to fit with the team?

I pulled in a candidate back in 2000 that was clearly qualified for the job as far as skills, but in the interview, his demeanor was abrasive. He was so clearly superior to anyone else on the team, how could we have the temerity to question his abilities? It spiraled out of control and I had to escort him out of the interview after only two hours. It was awful.

Re: Laid Off, Now What?

#352

Post by greyhair »

epmaybe wrote: post #316
ctvo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't believe this is how interviewing works in this field. Everyone in every other respectable field (and ones that pay as well or better, and have worse consequences for hiring a "bad fit") seems entitled to some baseline level of respect and recognition for their experience and work. Having some smarmy piece of shit ask questions from Jr.-year computer science should be justifiable grounds for a broken nose. T…

Is that really what the field is paying right now? Is that after 5-10yrs or right out of school?

$300K would be a contract rate for someone with 10 years of experience, with your own LLC and insurance.

It is pretty easy to find contract positions for $120 per hour, and higher responsibility/skill positions for $150 per hour. And the LLC and related insurance costs per year are trivial.

On the east coast, skilled software engineers (not programmers, necessarily) with 10+ years can expect at least $140K plus benefits as a full time employee, and it is pretty typical to see $160K.

Re: Laid Off, Now What?

#353

Post by auspex »

mgraczyk wrote: post #327
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For 300k+ a year? I'll find a way to deal with it. I would too even for half that but unfortunately, in Europe, lots of the fancy tech corps. are adopting the SV style mult-day take home project/on-site interview grind but only paying $65-85k/year. I'm still thinking whether I can make it in this field till retirement(FIRE is out of the question at this pay) or if I should just change to something else while I still…

None of the FAANG companies I've worked at have take home projects or multi-day interviews.

I have had multi-day and a take home project for FAANG interviews. Two actually.

Re: Laid Off, Now What?

#354

Post by greyhair »

jameshush wrote: post #233
nrmitchi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do people here know that even this 60-day grace window was only put into place relatively recently by the Obama administration? My worst situation dealing with this was a TN status rather than an H1B, where I was told at a border that I could be ineligible for admission to the US because I had no left the day that I was laid off from a previous position. I had to tell the CBP officer that there was a 60 day grace p…

I feel your pain. I've had the _worst_ luck crossing the US border with a TN. And I'm a white male Canadian, you'd think the racial stereotypes would be in my favour. Many CBP works simply do not know the rules as you said. I've been pulled aside for 3+ hours. I've almost missed flights even though it's 110% legal for me to be here and work. I was pulled aside for not having an I-94 paper in my passport even though t…

Back in 2006 I was returning to the US, as a US citizen, from a job interview in Kanata(ON), and I was held by immigration for so long I almost missed my flight.

Not sure at all why I was flagged. White, middle aged male, returning to the US after arriving in Canada that morning.

It was a very uncomfortable situation.

Re: Laid Off, Now What?

#355

Post by ctvo »

epmaybe wrote: post #316
ctvo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't believe this is how interviewing works in this field. Everyone in every other respectable field (and ones that pay as well or better, and have worse consequences for hiring a "bad fit") seems entitled to some baseline level of respect and recognition for their experience and work. Having some smarmy piece of shit ask questions from Jr.-year computer science should be justifiable grounds for a broken nose. T…

Is that really what the field is paying right now? Is that after 5-10yrs or right out of school?

I gave the total compensation ~average for FANGs / large US tech companies as a mid-senior role, which I assumed is what the OP was going for from the tone of their comment.

If you're in a position in life where you need a stable salary (family, children, etc.), you'll do the same amount of prep for a FANG as for a start-up emulating a FANG. Why in the world would I put in effort prepping and take 1/3rd the total compensation is my perspective (yes, I understand the start-up lottery, and disregard it here).

Re: Laid Off, Now What?

#356

Post by cvhashim »

maest wrote: post #141
firebaze wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you immigrate, you emigrate. If you successfully immigrate (let's say in the U.S.), you have skills sought there. Those skills are probably also in demand in your origin country. You'd stand even more of a chance to be one of a few in your home country, gaining status, gaining visibility, turning the tide. I know I'll probably be flagged for this question, but still: why do this? Why not help your origin country w…

> Those skills are probably also in demand in your origin country. That's not guaranteed to be true. Take finance - if you want a career in this field there's only a handful of cities where it makes sense to live and work: London, Singapore, New York, maybe Tokyo. An exotic derivatives quant won't find much demand for their skills in, say, Almaty. Similarly, tech workers benefit from being in tech hubs (SV being one…

I think the future of tech work will be distributed and remote.

Re: Laid Off, Now What?

#357

Post by marcinzm »

mths wrote: post #306
marcinzm wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US pays a lot and there's a lot of competition for positions. The H1B system doesn't help that competition. When you have 50 well qualified applicants (ie: could pass most interviews) per position then you need some way to weed out 49 of them. Resumes can be exaggerated and downright lied on so once there's enough competition using them just means you're selecting the best liars/sociopaths.

> When you have 50 well qualified applicants (ie: could pass most interviews) per position then you need some way to weed out 49 of them. Do you really? If they're all well qualified, wouldn't any of them do?

Why settle for merely well qualified when you can have the absolutely best?

Re: Laid Off, Now What?

#358

Post by marcinzm »

jjav wrote: post #347
marcinzm wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US pays a lot and there's a lot of competition for positions. The H1B system doesn't help that competition. When you have 50 well qualified applicants (ie: could pass most interviews) per position then you need some way to weed out 49 of them. Resumes can be exaggerated and downright lied on so once there's enough competition using them just means you're selecting the best liars/sociopaths.

> When you have 50 well qualified applicants (ie: could pass most interviews) per position then you need some way to weed out 49 of them. No, you don't. Simply hire the first one that's a fit. If all 50 are well-qualified, that means hire the very first one you interview.

Why settle for merely well qualified when you can have the absolutely best?

Re: Laid Off, Now What?

#359

Post by carls »

lowiqengineer wrote: post #117
carls wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you are correct in that (1) the credentials/pedigree and (2) some measure of intelligence will strongly positively impact job searching, your original comment seems to imply that this is sufficient. Then, this comment that I'm currently replying to, pins most of the responsibility on not "having the genes for it." Your HN username also leads me to think you have a "fixed mindset" around your capabilities. Regar…

> The insecurity gnawed at me and made me engage in many foolish behaviors during college, and also caused me to constantly compare myself with others. I was ultimately very unhappy. Through a series of experiences (i.e. therapy, honest introspection and self-reflection, conversations with trusted friends, being challenged on my mindset by others), I slowly came to understand how my mindset contributed to the same fa…

Even if you had gotten into Berkeley, I suspect your current mindset will just instead feel similarly insecure about why you didn't get into Stanford.

And even if you had gotten into Stanford, I wonder if you would feel insecure around the Stanford whizzes who seemed like geniuses.

And even if you were one of those top academically performing students, I wonder if you would still continue to compare yourself to the most elite in that circle (i.e., "Joe got a research internship at Google Brain as a Sophomore! I just have this lousy Facebook internship that it seems like half my peer group got.")[1]

My point is this: if you choose to, you will almost always find a way to be miserable. This isn't a personal attack on _you_ specifically. I think all humans engage in this sort of constant comparisons, at least to some degree. I do this too.

But I'm pointing this out because there's also a component to this that is our _choice_. We choose who we compare ourselves against, and we choose how that comparison affects us (e.g., as a source of inspiration, as a source of excitement, as a source of self-deprecation).

I notice that in your comments, it seems like you have willing given up your choice and agency over to some set of other immutable forces, like your genes, your school's ranking or some other force.

I hope you reclaim your agency and power. It just seems a shame to a whole life in which you willingly give away your agency to be happy.

Finally, as for "fixing yourself", I would just observe that a useful framework for mental wellness to use is that of physical health: being healthy is a choice we can make, and we need to keep on making on a daily basis. At no point can you say, "Well, I'm fit and healthy now so I guess I can go back to eating chips and chugging beer." Fitness isn't a state that is obtained and can never be lost. It's a process of constant daily choices to improve and maintain. It's also affected by genetic and external factors we have little control over.

In that way, I think it's similar to mental health. You may not be able to "fix" yourself by seeing a therapist a few times. But you can continuously improve your mental health by noticing each time you compare yourself with a stranger online, engage in self-shaming, talk "down" to yourself, or blame your genes. Those choices can compound over time, and given a long enough time period, will start to show marked improvements in the same way that doing some pushups, pullups, squats etc. consistently every day for months or years will improve your physical health.

I wish you the best of luck.

--------

[1] That example is something I have actually seen in peers/friends who, by external accounts, seem very successful. But they themselves are miserable because they're always comparing themselves with someone else who seems even more successful. "Comparison is the thief of joy." - Teddy Roosevelt.

Re: Laid Off, Now What?

#360

Post by manuelabeledo »

tus88 wrote: post #228
manuelabeledo wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has not happened, at least not in software engineering. Also, it is more desirable to attract talent to the US, where they will spend money and pay taxes, than just outsourcing.

That's because it has been prevented by immigration rules.

Then your comment is purely hypothetical, apart from wrong.

Also, H1-B visas and others alike are non immigrant visas, so there are no “immigration rules” in play here.

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