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The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

guzey.com

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Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#351

Post by kyuudou »

qu4ku wrote: post #307

This may be anecdotal [and sleep deprivation may impact different people differently] but it has a huge impact on me. I used to use memrise [flash card style memorisation] to learn new words/concepts for years [25minutes, the first thing after waking up, every single day] and I know from experience how sleep, food, hangover, etc. impact my performance. Sleep has a gigantic impact on my memory, focus and creativity —…

I have similar results and opinions. I feel that there is some kind of "back-end processing" that happens during sleep that is crucial for learning. Also, my sleep tends to be better when I'm doing some kind of workout regularly, although I need to sleep more. If I'm not working out, I can get by easily with 6 hours but if I am, absolutely need 8 hrs min. Makes sense to me since a lot of repair, healing and growth occur while sleeping.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#352

Post by vimslayer »

elbear wrote: post #350
vimslayer wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you stop having the wrong expectations, so you're less likely to be unhappy This seems like a big leap in logic.

Can you point out how? Here's an exaggerated example: are you upset because you can't fly like a bird? Probably not, because you know that the world doesn't work that way. A more subtle example: If you understand why people act the way they act, you stop being angry when they act in a way that is harmful to others or themselves. It doesn't mean you just let them do it. You stop them if you can. But it doesn't make yo…

If my dog or friend or family member would die, I'd be unhappy. Understanding that death is natural wouldn't do much to that unhappiness. Maybe someday I'd get over it, or maybe not, but either way, it wouldn't be because I gained some deeper understanding of life and death.

> it doesn't make you unhappy if a wild animal attacks you when go into its cage

Maybe we have different definitions of unhappiness at play here, because being attacked by an animal would definitely make me unhappy. I mean at the moment it would mostly make me fear for my life, but afterward when dealing with the damages I got, I think I would be quite unhappy, and understanding that really I'm the one to blame wouldn't help. It could make me more unhappy, leaving me kicking myself for doing something so stupid.

I wouldn't blame the animal if that's what you mean, but that's different from happiness/unhappiness.

> are you upset because you can't fly like a bird

I think that's more because my hopes and dreams are shaped by the environment that I've grown up in and, living amongst other humans that can't fly like a bird, the possibility of doing that has never occurred to me, at least not for seriously enough to become an issue of happiness.

Had I been a born an elephant with huge ears that all my so-called elephant friends would torment me for... yeah it would make me pretty unhappy if those ears wouldn't at least give me the ability to fly.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#353

Post by froh »

spacephysics wrote: post #160
kthxbye123 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> or carnivore with a focus on ketosis Following a "carnivore" diet is a really terrible idea. Unless you're an Inuit living in the frozen north, you should eat some greens.

Going on 3 years now, with comprehensive blood tests taken every 3-4 months for 2 years. Never had better markers for inflammation (below error threshold), cardiac health, liver health, etc. Tried keto (proper), vegan, vegetarian, low-FODMAP, paleo, all without success. Found a forum of other IBS people, and decided to risk going against mainstream 'authority' such as the American Heart Association. So far, feel bett…

Do you have a title or link for that Harvard survey?

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#354

Post by riazrizvi »

guzey wrote: post #235
riazrizvi wrote: post #174

I find the cognitive tests in the experiment to be insufficient, to make the argument that practical cognition did not suffer and that the experimenter was 'productive for 16 hours'. The experiment uses two computer games and a 3 hr test, not much of a comparison to all day non-stop creative software development. The SAT is one neat little question after another, every challenge carefully crafted and nicely wrapped.…

I don't know about chess but I coded a lot during the experiment (on day 7 I spent 11 hours coding, starting with a big block between 8am and 2pm) and felt great.

Hmm, might give it a try then. I was once sleep deprived for about a year in an old job, and I remember it being so painful I was really turned off to it. But perhaps it bears a second look. Thanks.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#355

Post by lolc »

biophysboy wrote: post #339
lolc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found the critique very convincing. What do you disagree with? > Sleep is very much an open question. Walker's book is very much at odds with that statement.

I guess it depends on what you mean by convincing. If by convincing you mean Walker played fast and loose with some of his data presentation, then I'd have a hard time disagreeing. He was also pushing the marketing circuit hard back when that blog post went up (NPR, Rogan, etc). Which can make him feel like a snake oil salesman. So I understand the suspicion But if by convincing you mean that guzey brought us back to…

Yes by convincing I mean it convinced me that Walker is a quack. Way beyond suspicion. As an author he didn't only waste the time I spent reading his book. He put bullshit in my head. I can't fully protect myself against that, but I don't generally give people a second chance on it.

I didn't get a "sleep less" message from the critique. Just a "don't read Walker" message. It feels weirdly patronizing to suggest that the critique is wrong when you just fear people will sleep less after reading it. Why not say that right away?

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#356

Post by danlugo92 »

noisy_boy wrote: post #276
Zenbit_UX wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-1 to having a stranger wander through your place and things while you're not at home. As a commenter on this site you should be well aware that any computer security precautions are forfeit when physical access is available. Get a roomba.

Sure ask the roomba to iron clothes too and watch it while it goes up the walls your kids dirtied up. Check with people with kids on the verge of collapse - if you can afford it, its a godsend (in Asia, you probably can afford it atleast part-time). Nobody said allowing access to the helper while nobody is around. Weekend help for a few hours is a thing. You can rest and relax while they are around. Just don't be dum…

I gave it a try, with the only person I could trust (a family member) that was willing to work as a maid.

They quality of the work eventually went down. Fewer nooks and crannies were cleaner each passing week, there were also "cleaning mistakes" that happened that led to a roach infestation happening (or not being prevented from spreading), such as wet dishes inside the pantry.

I just moved to an smaller apartment and will just clean it myself, maybe will ask my GF to help me out.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#357

Post by noisy_boy »

danlugo92 wrote: post #356
noisy_boy wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure ask the roomba to iron clothes too and watch it while it goes up the walls your kids dirtied up. Check with people with kids on the verge of collapse - if you can afford it, its a godsend (in Asia, you probably can afford it atleast part-time). Nobody said allowing access to the helper while nobody is around. Weekend help for a few hours is a thing. You can rest and relax while they are around. Just don't be dum…

I gave it a try, with the only person I could trust (a family member) that was willing to work as a maid. They quality of the work eventually went down. Fewer nooks and crannies were cleaner each passing week, there were also "cleaning mistakes" that happened that led to a roach infestation happening (or not being prevented from spreading), such as wet dishes inside the pantry. I just moved to an smaller apartment an…

Like in most other jobs, the quality of work does deteriorate. People get bored, take their employers for granted, cut corners and so on. In case of family, things are more complicated.

For domestic work, you usually can't offer them a career progression path to keep them interested. So the alternative is rotation. Though trust is definitely an issue, if your location has maid agencies that arrange for this kind of work, that aspect can be mostly addressed.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#358

Post by collyw »

guzey wrote: post #228
collyw wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know any off hand but Mathew Walkers book "Why we sleep" talks about them. Apparently there are more road traffic accidents the day after the clocks change in spring when many people loose an hours sleep.

https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

It's kind of a long article, but I can't see anything in it that refutes the point about road accidents.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#359

Post by guzey »

collyw wrote: post #358
guzey wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/

It's kind of a long article, but I can't see anything in it that refutes the point about road accidents.

I did not look into his claims about road accidents but given that Walker misrepresents and so much of the research (and sometimes falsifies it) on sleep, I would not be willing to believe such claim simply based on him saying this in the book.

Re: The effects on cognition of sleeping 4 hours per night for 12-14 days

#360

Post by collyw »

guzey wrote: post #359
collyw wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of a long article, but I can't see anything in it that refutes the point about road accidents.

I did not look into his claims about road accidents but given that Walker misrepresents and so much of the research (and sometimes falsifies it) on sleep, I would not be willing to believe such claim simply based on him saying this in the book.

I find that quite a weak argument, it sounds like "he said some things wrong, everything he says must be wrong".

As far as I remember he cited peer reviewed articles. Anyway a quick search turned up this:

https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)...

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