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New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

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Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#351

Post by NotSammyHagar »

hevelvarik wrote: post #332
devy wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a difficult decision to be made. On one hand, short term strong measure will guarantee unemployment and bankruptcies and potentially long term economic impact (talk about another the Great Depression). On the other hand, inaction will inevitably cause millions of deaths including young people. It's a chilling effect to see that "the point of no return" date was already past last week for NY. Very very disturbing…

I can't remember the last time I logged in. I live in in Crown Heights, Brooklyn and I don't want belittle the gravity of the situation at all because we have seen seen 3 obituary entries (all elderly) and have a number of other people who we are praying for in precarious situations. But your comment strikes me as something out dystopian sci-fi. Our volunteer ems reps as of 4 days ago estimated that 80% of the commun…

I think you are missing one important factor in why so many people are trying to block it. The more people who get it, the more some percentage will develop an infection serious enough to cause them to seek hospital care and some large fraction will need respiration. Most people will not get that sick. So it might feel like why are we panicing over this since we just get sick for a week and then we are over it.

It's because of what happened in Italy, too many people for the hospitals all at once. People over 45 don't get treated, they let them die, as the doctors say in their terrible reports. Washington state is facing the edge of this right now. They delayed all elective surgeries at the hospitals. The hospitals in the Seattle area are started to be at the breaking point. They started building temp hospitals in Soccer fields. Yesterday it was one, now it's many. It was in the that one famous senior citizen's home (25% dead, 50% in hospital, 25% waiting). Now it's in 10 of them here.

This is real and serious.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#352

Post by thr0w__4w4y »

frequentnapper wrote: post #350
fennecfoxen wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will be impossible for us to permanently stop the spread with half measures. You're not going to like this, but at this point, no one expects anyone to permanently stop the spread of the virus. It is very contagious, it has a very effective stealth mode, and it is widespread. You should probably expect that over half of the world population will contract this virus. New York's restrictions are primarily to make…

China claims to have stopped it in its tracks.

This is a 100% serious question: I see that your statement is simply stated (and it's a fair representation of what China is saying as of /right now/), but I get the feeling you either agree with it and are applauding China, or are pointing out how ludicrous / absurd such a position is.

For the tone-impaired amongst us, if you are taking one of the positions, can you please help this simpleton understand what you think of China's proclamation?

I ask because I really don't know what most people think these days about the news coming out of China.

Sincere thanks.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#353

Post by koheripbal »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #256
quartzite wrote: post #84

It will be impossible for us to permanently stop the spread with half measures. As viral spread continues due to half hearted social distancing, when will we be able to return to normalcy? Given the characteristics of this virus even a few cases floating around seem to be enough to reignite contagion. So we persist in stasis for a month or a year with no end in sight while the economy begins to collapse, which will a…

> It will be impossible for us to permanently stop the spread with half measures. You're not going to like this, but at this point, no one expects anyone to permanently stop the spread of the virus. It is very contagious, it has a very effective stealth mode, and it is widespread. You should probably expect that over half of the world population will contract this virus. New York's restrictions are primarily to make…

Which means the only winning strategy is resume our lives - not hide in our homes. Those who are in the vulnerable categories should absolutely shelter-in-place, but the rest of us need to earn a living.

The government cannot possibly bail out every single business in the nation.

TLDR: Everyone under 50- go to work, wash your hands, maybe get sick. Everyone over 50 - stay at home until there's a vaccine.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#354

Post by koheripbal »

frequentnapper wrote: post #350
fennecfoxen wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will be impossible for us to permanently stop the spread with half measures. You're not going to like this, but at this point, no one expects anyone to permanently stop the spread of the virus. It is very contagious, it has a very effective stealth mode, and it is widespread. You should probably expect that over half of the world population will contract this virus. New York's restrictions are primarily to make…

China claims to have stopped it in its tracks.

China effectively let everyone catch the disease so that now everyone is either immune or dead.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#355

Post by frequentnapper »

thr0w__4w4y wrote: post #352
frequentnapper wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China claims to have stopped it in its tracks.

This is a 100% serious question: I see that your statement is simply stated (and it's a fair representation of what China is saying as of /right now/), but I get the feeling you either agree with it and are applauding China, or are pointing out how ludicrous / absurd such a position is. For the tone-impaired amongst us, if you are taking one of the positions, can you please help this simpleton understand what you thi…

Personally, I take anything announced by the ccp with a grain of salt. They can maneuver the news any which way they want without being challenged internally.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#356

Post by StanislavPetrov »

koheripbal wrote: post #353
fennecfoxen wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will be impossible for us to permanently stop the spread with half measures. You're not going to like this, but at this point, no one expects anyone to permanently stop the spread of the virus. It is very contagious, it has a very effective stealth mode, and it is widespread. You should probably expect that over half of the world population will contract this virus. New York's restrictions are primarily to make…

Which means the only winning strategy is resume our lives - not hide in our homes. Those who are in the vulnerable categories should absolutely shelter-in-place, but the rest of us need to earn a living. The government cannot possibly bail out every single business in the nation. TLDR: Everyone under 50- go to work, wash your hands, maybe get sick. Everyone over 50 - stay at home until there's a vaccine.

Except it doesn't work that way, because a certain % of people who get sick require hospitalization to survive - including people under 50 - even if that's a lower % than those who are older and/or have underlying medical conditions. We have under a million total hospital beds in the USA. If 100 million under 50s get sick right away and just 3% of them require hospitalization that's still 3x as many hospital beds as we have in the entire country (and that doesn't factor in all the people who require hospital beds for non-coronavirus reasons).

How many hundreds of thousands or millions of preventable deaths are acceptable to you for a faster bounceback of the economy?

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#357

Post by StanislavPetrov »

frequentnapper wrote: post #350
fennecfoxen wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will be impossible for us to permanently stop the spread with half measures. You're not going to like this, but at this point, no one expects anyone to permanently stop the spread of the virus. It is very contagious, it has a very effective stealth mode, and it is widespread. You should probably expect that over half of the world population will contract this virus. New York's restrictions are primarily to make…

China claims to have stopped it in its tracks.

China locked down the entire country and implemented draconian never that we have (and will not). Check out what is required to travel right now in China:

https://twitter.com/CarolYujiaYin/status/1239583581325778944

Here in the USA we are only two days removed from having run Democratic primaries where millions of people lined up and crowded together in small rooms - the total opposite of what China (and South Korea and Japan) have done. Images of packed beaches and boardwalks continue to emerge. The unfortunate fact is that many Americans aren't taking this pandemic seriously which is going to result in a much worse time of it than it could have otherwise been.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#358

Post by baobabKoodaa »

koheripbal wrote: post #354
frequentnapper wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China claims to have stopped it in its tracks.

China effectively let everyone catch the disease so that now everyone is either immune or dead.

This is wildly untrue and unfounded.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#359

Post by baobabKoodaa »

School-Cotton wrote: post #309
henryfjordan wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would we only expect half the world to get it? My understanding is that everyone needs to be eventually exposed in one way or another, either contracting the virus or getting a vaccine (when they are ready).

Assume that everyone who has it spreads it to 2 people on average before dying or recovering. If one of the 2 people you would have spread it to is immune, you will only spread it to 1 person instead, and the total number of infected will not rise.

Huh? If you spread it to 1 person, then the total number of people who have been infected will rise by 1.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#360

Post by s1artibartfast »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #228
s1artibartfast wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the applicable concept concept is that cancle culture is ineffective at changing minds and a more compassionate approach is more appropriate in both the short and long run. Hate and shame feeds reactionary behavior and is counter productive. If you disagree with someone, empathize with them as a human being and explain how their behavior is hurting others

Hate and shame are evolutionary mechanisms to get people to follow group norms. As long as they hurt (something you seem to accept), people will try to avoid them. It’s also worth noting that these are mild measures compared to the other stick societies like to use, criminal law. If people felt confident that rapists were prosecuted not just in cases where their victims number in the dozens (Weinstein, Crosby), they…

Tactics which evolved hundreds of thousands of years ago and worked in societies of 50 people are not all applicable today. Some actively lead to the division and extremism we we see today in our society
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