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People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

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Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#351

Post by westoncb »

michalf6 wrote: post #199
bumby wrote: post #168

From David Brooks: "I’ve been thinking about the difference between the résumé virtues and the eulogy virtues. The résumé virtues are the ones you list on your résumé, the skills that you bring to the job market and that contribute to external success. The eulogy virtues are deeper. They’re the virtues that get talked about at your funeral, the ones that exist at the core of your being — whether you are kind, brave,…

Thing is, by the time your eulogy is written, you're already dead. I prefer to leave my kids with a tangible legacy than a beautiful story of a guy who was too kind to be a dick when he needed to. Besides, words chosen for your eulogy depend on the influence you managed to build while still living.

The idea is that the eulogy talks about how you lived your life and what kind of person you were. The way Brooks is using it is just as a tool to grant some perspective; the eulogy in a literal sense is a convenient proxy for something deeper: consider how it would feel if the only honest nice things people could say about you at your funeral were that you were ambitious and successful. Most people would be strongly displeased by that—and yet it's all too easy for the same people to fall into a trap of living their lives in such a way that the values of ambition and success take precedence over everything else.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#352

Post by coldtea »

ThaJay wrote: post #14
akhilcacharya wrote: post #9

> Got a FAANG internship? Well it wasn’t one of the good FAANGs, so if you really think about it, you really didn’t accomplish anything. This is funny because I’ve been straight up told this by multiple people. It’s not neuroticism, it’s the simple fact that hierarchies exist.

hierarchies are toxic by definition

Neither the definition of toxic, nor the definition of hierarchy imply any such relation, much less require it.

Hierarchies are what they are: an acknowledgement that the universe (and most subsets of it, e.g. companies, countries, etc.) is not a mere undifferentiated blob, but has qualitative and quantitative differences that we need to take into account.

You wouldn't get any arbitrary surgeon if you could have the best one, just because "hierarchies are toxic", right?

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#353

Post by coldtea »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #269
jacobolus wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was David Brooks dumping his wife of 3 decades for his 2-decades-younger research assistant and then writing passive-aggressive columns in the NYT about how people abandoned by their spouses should suck it up and stop bothering them an example of résumé virtuous or eulogy virtuous?

Following your heart is a virtue. Writing about it bluntly, doubly so. Is one not free to leave a spouse for someone else? Regardless of age (assuming everyone is a consenting adult!)? I give credit to those who live their life intentionally. You only get one. If you’re unhappy, pull the sails and head towards happiness. Valid point to not be a dick about it though (I haven’t read to know if these articles you mentio…

>Following your heart is a virtue.

No, that's a modern misconception.

"Following your heart" is just an action with no moral value in itself. Whether it's a virtue depends on the contents of your heart.

All kinds of scumbags and horrible people who hurt others "followed their heart" in doing so.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#354

Post by coldtea »

bendotero wrote: post #267
vkou wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you'll care a hell of a lot about what other people think of you when that thinking is the difference between having food on the table for your kids, or seeing them go hungry. That's generally why people give so much of a shit about resume values.

But this is such a false dichotomy. The daily choice is not between providing for your children or being a jerk to your fellow man. There is a balance that ought to be struck between not caring about what other people think of you and caring deeply about how we treat other people.

>The daily choice is not between providing for your children or being a jerk to your fellow man.

You'd be surprised. People think so because we rationalize all kinds of bad behavior (e.g. not speaking up when a colleague was wrongly fired or abused, or working for a company that runs sweatshops, or does all kind of damage). As long as they don't do it directly (and just "follow orders" or "doing their job") they think it's OK.

But it's still a daily choice, and the other option to being principled is often not putting food on the table.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#355

Post by fourmyle »

tmh88j wrote: post #338
fourmyle wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of these people got into the housing market before the explosion in prices over the last 15 years. Also, that stat also doesn't tell you if people on those incomes can afford their houses or how soon they can retire. It sounds like you either don't live in the Bay Area or you make about what I make and haven't realized if you don't make $300k and your options aren't very pleasant.

I don't know if you came from an extremely privileged background, but I find it ridiculous that your minimum standard of a comfortable living starts at over double the median household income for that area.

I grew up in the Rust Belt in rural PA. Mean salary where I am from is about $22k. You either haven’t lived in the Bay Area or can’t do math if you think what I am saying is crazy. Anyway check this out https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/you...

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#356

Post by jophde »

mcguire wrote: post #305
fourmyle wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going through the realization right now that I need to go “FANG” or get out of the Bay Area right now. Just got engaged and I have been looking at costs. I thought I could make a small family work here on $170k. That’s dead wrong. I would need at least $300k to make a family of 4 comfortable here. My wife and I both want her to stay at home and focus on the kids and she makes non tech money anyway. Even at this amoun…

San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA Metro Area: https://censusreporter.org/profiles/31000US41860-san-francis... Median household income: $108k Owner-occupied dwellings: 55%

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/09/11/you... CNBC saying you need $350k a year for a middle class life in SF and NYC.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#357

Post by pete762 »

diehunde wrote: post #190
bumby wrote: post #168

From David Brooks: "I’ve been thinking about the difference between the résumé virtues and the eulogy virtues. The résumé virtues are the ones you list on your résumé, the skills that you bring to the job market and that contribute to external success. The eulogy virtues are deeper. They’re the virtues that get talked about at your funeral, the ones that exist at the core of your being — whether you are kind, brave,…

I prefer to focus on the virtues that bring happiness and joy to my life while I'm alive. Money is one of those things. I don't care about what people will say at my funeral because I won't be there. If being brave and honest makes you happy and brings joy to your life then go for it. If the challenges of becoming a billionaire is what makes you feel alive, then go for it.

> I don't care about what people will say at my funeral because I won't be there.

Sorry, that's just stupid. Having people (honestly) say something nice about you at your funeral is not the end goal, but it's a _symptom_ of heaving lead a life that brought your closest people joy over a long time, and that is the end goal.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#358

Post by pete762 »

0x445442 wrote: post #93
Klinky wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's also note that becoming a startup billionaire to then go off and fund your pet projects is a bit of an anomaly. It's very hard to "mimick" the successful parts of their lives.

> It's very hard to "mimick" the successful parts of their lives Given the level of luck involved I'd say it's near impossible. I've noticed a definite transition in the past 20-25 years and that's more and more difficulty for people to accept things like luck and talent exist. I also think the difficulty of acceptance has negative consequences on people's psyche. They seem to become angry and depressed if they've, b…

Cargo cult has been around forever.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#359

Post by Consultant32452 »

bsanr2 wrote: post #350
Consultant32452 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was making $35k/yr I was putting 10% in my retirement plan. I just had cheaper vacations, older cars, and fewer luxuries. People don't like to hear it but most financial problems are a character problem more than they are an income problem. The good news is that character flaws are not permanent. We all have them and if we can be self aware enough to acknowledge them, we can address them.

Let me get out the list... >Before or after taxes? >What year? >Where did you live? >What was your monthly rent? >Did you rely on your family/friends for ANYTHING (including something as innocuous as "storing your childhood possessions")? >Did you have any chronic or acute health issues? >How far did you have to drive for work? >Did you have friends or family you were obliged to support, even occasionally? >Did you h…

>Before or after taxes?

Before, median household income for my city at that time was mid-50ks. Of course median household income is with 1.5-2 workers. I wasn't married, but I did split rent on a house with friends... so adjust accordingly I guess.

>What year?

circa 2005

>Where did you live?

A 2nd tier major metro. Not NY/SF/LA, but a city you've definitely heard of.

>What was your monthly rent?

I don't remember

>Did you rely on your family/friends for ANYTHING (including something as innocuous as "storing your childhood possessions")?

No. My parents did have my childhood possessions but I grew up in an abusive household and never went back to retrieve those items.

>Did you have any chronic or acute health issues?

No

>How far did you have to drive for work?

30 mins

>Did you have friends or family you were obliged to support, even occasionally?

Yes, I helped friends pay rent a few times if that counts.

>Did you have a side hustle?

No

IME people will look for any excuse not to face their own personal failings. These are all the wrong kinds of questions. Instead of seeking an excuse for bad behavior, the right kinds of questions are about strategies for achieving better outcomes.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#360

Post by dot1x »

mywittyname wrote: post #148
lm28469 wrote: post #75

> Unfortunately, after a year of purposely trying, I was still not becoming Elon Musk nor any other “successful” person. Despite reading everyday, meditating, getting up early, taking cold showers, and many more things. But what makes these guys successful anyway? Their fame? Money? Contribution to society? And wearing grey t-shirts won't make you Zuckerberg [0]. You don't become a 0.00000001%er by mimicking the most…

Also, it's unlikely there will ever be another Musk or Zuckerberg in tech. Technology is a largely established industry and it's very unlikely that a single person is going to found and maintain control of another trillion dollar company. Zuck-a-bees need to get in on the ground floor of the next, next big thing, which barely exists right now.

One word: Crypto.

Crypto is the next thing.

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