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How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

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Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#351

Post by yellowapple »

tobr wrote: post #345
privateSFacct wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work for a media org - than you KNOW that on the non-amp pages the synchronous java script from a hundred tracking / ad platforms (why can't these sites just use ONE tracking library) CRUSH the page load times. Despite your (false) claim that google support sync javascript ad libraries "just as they do in their regular sites" this is 100% false. The amp javascript components have DOM interaction restrictions,…

> Despite your (false) claim that google support sync javascript ad libraries "just as they do in their regular sites" this is 100% false. OP didn’t claim this.

> they will look how to load it with ads and tracking, which very conveniently is supported on amp, just as they do in their regular sites.

Yes OP did.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#352

Post by gregable »

reaperducer wrote: post #311
mrtksn wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's a pretty well-known fact that users leave websites if they are not loading fast. People don't go with reading plans to websites, the titles are optimized to bring you there and you don't know what's in the article. More often than not, the text on the website is not what the title made you believe it is. You can't plan ahead, you want to quickly find out what is this all about. The article themselves a…

Actually, it's a pretty well-known fact that users leave websites if they are not loading fast. Is it? The only place I've ever seen push that view is Google. I've never seen any non-Google information reflecting that.

A few references listed in this article: https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/performance/why-site-spe...

- Mobify found that decreasing their homepage's load time by 100 milliseconds resulted in a 1.11% uptick in session-based conversion

- Retailer AutoAnything experienced a 12-13% increase in sales after cutting page load time in half

- Walmart discovered that improving page load time by one second increased conversions by 2%

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#353

Post by arthurcolle »

mrtksn wrote: post #282
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google AMP mostly just reduces the latency by pre-loading the pages from Google Search results. That has the side-effect of increasing the traffic on networks using Google Search when Google AMP results come up on the Google Search results, which they probably will given that using Google AMP will improve the site's Google Search ranking. I haven't benchmarked it, so I can't actually speak from anything but wild spec…

I gave it a try. So I searched for "Trump" in Safari mobile, the result page loaded 2.5mb. It loaded a bit more when I clicked on an AMP article and kept loading more as I jump from article to article. It did not load any data without me switching to the next article. After 10 articles, the transferred data was 28MB. I visited the Guardian's own website and it fetched 3MB. So, It looks like Google does not preload a…

How are you able to look at how much data was transferred on Safari mobile? As far as I know you can't access dev tools on mobile. Did you just change the User Agent on your computer to simulate?

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#354

Post by liveoneggs »

buboard wrote: post #334
privateSFacct wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you work for a media org - than you KNOW that on the non-amp pages the synchronous java script from a hundred tracking / ad platforms (why can't these sites just use ONE tracking library) CRUSH the page load times. Despite your (false) claim that google support sync javascript ad libraries "just as they do in their regular sites" this is 100% false. The amp javascript components have DOM interaction restrictions,…

amp-ads moves those ads/trackers in iframes, but that doesn't reduce the code size, right? google is also injecting code in your site , so you can't be sure that it's secure / private, right? And if i promise to make all ads async and iframe, will google promise to rank my site higher? If not , they are discriminating in favor of their own walled garden system without an objective ruse.

really? adsense forbids use of iframes afaik

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#355

Post by gregable »

ogre_codes wrote: post #332
privateSFacct wrote: post #324

For those interested in security - AMP basically forces the iframe javascript sandbox security model. https://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/security/sandboxed-i... Even reputable web pages tend to have a metric TON of non-sandboxed javascript from third parties. If you care about your security this is a risk. If you stick with AMP - this is - by spec - prohibited. Something to think about as you browse the web gobb…

Which conveniently ensures that the only way you can effectively monetize AMP articles is via Google's own advertising networks which don't have constraints on running javascript.

See the list of natively supported Ad networks in AMP: https://amp.dev/documentation/components/amp-ad/#supported-a...

There are about 200 in that list and any network can submit a config to be added, it's just a pull request away.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#356

Post by cletus »

criddell wrote: post #229
cletus wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It blows my mind how many devs around here are devoted to their browser and search. Are they though? Or is AMP just a storm-in-a-teacup? There a handful of people on Earth that will stop using Google search (in particular) and Chrome as a protest against AMP. > ... and yet a MAJOR investment in all of our future. [citation needed] Personalized search is not inherently bad. Use Google search without being logged in…

> Use Google search without being logged in if you really care. AFAIK, the search is still tailored to some degree. Log out and search for "plumber" and I bet you get local results.

Is that bad? It seems obvious to me that some contextual information will lead to better search results. Chances are if someone searches for "plumber" they're more likely to want one in their local area and not, say, in Armenia.

So the only issue is how much contextual information you want to give Google when you search for something.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#357

Post by kingo55 »

yellowapple wrote: post #351
tobr wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Despite your (false) claim that google support sync javascript ad libraries "just as they do in their regular sites" this is 100% false. OP didn’t claim this.

> they will look how to load it with ads and tracking, which very conveniently is supported on amp, just as they do in their regular sites. Yes OP did.

He put words in OPs mouth about sync loaded JS.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#358

Post by tobr »

yellowapple wrote: post #351
tobr wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Despite your (false) claim that google support sync javascript ad libraries "just as they do in their regular sites" this is 100% false. OP didn’t claim this.

> they will look how to load it with ads and tracking, which very conveniently is supported on amp, just as they do in their regular sites. Yes OP did.

No, this doesn’t say anything about sync vs async.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#359

Post by gregable »

jimrandomh wrote: post #309

My experience with AMP, immediately before seeing this article: 1. On desktop, I clicked through a link on Facebook, leading to an AMP page 2. The page was clearly meant for mobile, and looked bad on desktop; the images were full-screen size, the font was too big, and the text line length went all the way to the edges of my very wide browser window. 3. I used Ctrl+Minus to adjust the zoom, which fixed the font size b…

Every valid AMP page includes a to the canonical URL for the document. If the aggregator (facebook in this case) parsed and linked to the canonical as the publisher recommends via this annotation, you would get the version the publisher preferred. This is how browser extensions that rewrite to the non-amp version work, they extract this URL.

The AMP viewer iframe share button (and share intents) all share this canonical URL, not the AMP url. Google's implementation is trying it's best to get you to that version as well when sharing links.

Link Rel Canonical is an old (2012) standard: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6596

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#360

Post by narrator »

The best way to fight back is to use DuckDuckGo. After the "controversial twiddler", Google is going to have to have to do something significant to earn my trust back. I do occasionally switch back using "g! " on duckduckgo when I don't get any decent results, but for the most part duckduckgo is fine.
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