Why Is the Migration to Python 3 Taking So Long? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Is the Migration to Python 3 Taking So Long?

#351

Post by just_myles » Tue, Nov 19, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

setr wrote: post #176

just_myles wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. But, I think he means syntactically you can make jumps from one dbms to another without much of a fuss. Obviously there are non-language features but, that is not what is being discussed here.

That's mostly a result of databases (kinda) converging, SQL being a declarative language and it primarily being a wrapper around relational algebra, with a bunch of flags. And of course, it's a very direct interface to the RDBMS, and you're just migrating between systems that try very hard to have the same interface. As a language however, it's a whole lot of nonsense. Extremely inconsistent syntax, stuffing a trinar…

"As a language however, it's a whole lot of nonsense. Extremely inconsistent syntax, stuffing a trinary logic into a boolean system, a standard that gets extended arbitrarily, and even the tooling ecosystem is a fair bit pathetic (the lack of formatters particularly annoy me; everyone tries to support SQLs generally, and end up missing every extended feature.. if it's not a simple select query/ddl, you're not getting a decent format output)"

Would love to see your point in action. For me personally, speaking strictly writing simple scripts, they pretty much translate fairly well. Regarding formatting, are you referring to the output?

Re: Why Is the Migration to Python 3 Taking So Long?

#352

Post by michaelmrose » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 3:44 AM UTC

someguydave wrote: post #341

michaelmrose wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely amazing to me that people can pay nothing for something and frame the party providing that software for free opting not to spend even more effort to provide bug fixes for an old version of their software as them effectively taxing them. This is especially true of python 2 which is was supported from the release of python 3 in 2008 until 2020 and further supported by red hat until 2024. This is exactly…

“ Nobody is after all taking away your version of python 2 or ability to use and maintain it” No, but they are taking away the right of anyone who does this to call the result “python”, and that is user-hostile.

Why do you believe you have a right to call such a work python? Trademark when not abused is the one form of intellectual property that is trivially defensible.

If anyone can call anything anything then how is it even possible for the consumer to make intelligent choices? Having it be called something else allows your consumers to make an informed choice about using it rather than allowing you to incorrectly trade on the official projects reputation. Of course YOU might merely want someone to competently maintain python 2.

Others might opt to do so badly and thus damage the actual python brand. Worst yet others might opt to make changes to projects that serve their nefarious needs like folding in ads or data collection. Without a defining line between official and unofficial how do we prevent such?

Call it cobra and brand it pythons cooler cousin if you like.

Re: Why Is the Migration to Python 3 Taking So Long?

#353

Post by michaelmrose » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 3:52 AM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #347

michaelmrose wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely amazing to me that people can pay nothing for something and frame the party providing that software for free opting not to spend even more effort to provide bug fixes for an old version of their software as them effectively taxing them. This is especially true of python 2 which is was supported from the release of python 3 in 2008 until 2020 and further supported by red hat until 2024. This is exactly…

Two of the worst responses ever: 1. it's free so it's OK to be user-hostile 2. if you don't like the direction, just fork/fix it

If you don't pay anything the project gets to decide to what extent serving your interests is a worthy goal.

You don't have to fork it to fix it personally. You may also consider putting your money where your mouth is and organizing an effort to fund the change you want to see in the world. If you succeed the world will have additional value it wouldn't without it and owe you kudos. Everyone likes options. If you fail you ought to move on you have no basis for complaint. I think this is informative.

Open Source is Not About You

https://gist.github.com/richhickey/1563cddea1002958f96e7ba95...

Re: Why Is the Migration to Python 3 Taking So Long?

#354

Post by pbreit » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 8:31 AM UTC

michaelmrose wrote: post #353

pbreit wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two of the worst responses ever: 1. it's free so it's OK to be user-hostile 2. if you don't like the direction, just fork/fix it

If you don't pay anything the project gets to decide to what extent serving your interests is a worthy goal. You don't have to fork it to fix it personally. You may also consider putting your money where your mouth is and organizing an effort to fund the change you want to see in the world. If you succeed the world will have additional value it wouldn't without it and owe you kudos. Everyone likes options. If you fai…

I'm amazed at the lengths people go to justify user-hostility.

Re: Why Is the Migration to Python 3 Taking So Long?

#355

Post by michaelmrose » Thu, Nov 21, 2019, 5:29 PM UTC

pbreit wrote: post #354

michaelmrose wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't pay anything the project gets to decide to what extent serving your interests is a worthy goal. You don't have to fork it to fix it personally. You may also consider putting your money where your mouth is and organizing an effort to fund the change you want to see in the world. If you succeed the world will have additional value it wouldn't without it and owe you kudos. Everyone likes options. If you fai…

I'm amazed at the lengths people go to justify user-hostility.

Do you regularly go to restaurants you can't afford and declare their desire not to make you a plate hostile?

From where do you derive the requirement to graciously work for free to serve your ends?