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Brave launches 1.0

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Re: Brave launches 1.0

#351

Post by asdkhadsj »

harikb wrote: post #312
asdkhadsj wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I'd be happier if there was some notion of an inherent value in my eyeballs - and then I could just put that money into the system. Eg, I pay $5/m or $15/m, whatever, and that gets split up by the number of pages I view and content I consume. I'm a firm believer that FOSS and (Internet) Content needs funding. Yet, I loathe ads. They promote (but are not solely to blame for) behavior that is a brain drain on soci…

The reality is that your eyeballs are something like $200/month. You are just not likely to pay that money. When you factor in money thrown away at bot/fraud, advertisers spend a shit load of money just to reach you (and indirectly pays for a whole lot of entertainment tv-shows/web-content)

Man that's rough. You're right, my content is way not worth that.

It's odd to me though. I could pay for content I care about at an amount far smaller than $200/m, and the content creators would make more from me I imagine.

Why the extreme overhead? There's no way some blogger is making $200/m off of a handful of clicks from me. I'd be shocked if they made $5/m directly from me.

So where is the disconnect?

(sidenote, i understand the $200/m figure was not for a single blogger. But, lets pretend that blogger was all of my traffic for the month. I still can't imagine it's even remotely close to $200/m)

Re: Brave launches 1.0

#352

Post by wpietri »

leftyted wrote: post #307
TremendousJudge wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>when you compare against the current option To me the current option is no participation because I see no explicit ads. The web is pull and not push, and my browser renders whatever I want it to. As for the revenue, they can keep it for all I care, why would I want to make money browsing the web? It'd be like making money for talking a walk in the park

> To me the current option is no participation because I see no explicit ads. The web is pull and not push, and my browser renders whatever I want it to. Yes and Brave's argument is that if everyone acted like you, the web as we know it would collapse. Perhaps it's an argument worth taking seriously. And I say that as someone who acts like you.

That really isn't an argument worth taking seriously. Much of the web would be fine. Another chunk of it would have to shift more toward existing revenue sources. And some would have to develop new revenue sources.

The only thing that would be particularly at risk is stuff funded exclusively with display ads, but where users don't care enough about it to support it. Or, put differently, we'd lose sites that people don't like much, but that survive through manipulating people into buying things. Doesn't sound like much of a loss to me.

When the Tivo was new, it was argued that it would destroy television, because people could now skip ads. 20 years later, TV is doing better than ever as a medium. Why? Because a lot of us are now paying directly for the things we like. I think the same thing would happen with the web.

Re: Brave launches 1.0

#353

Post by brettnak »

bad_user wrote: post #187
brettnak wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this largely ignores "how" ads are distributed. The website you are looking at did not select _any_ of the ads you see. They chose a network who is delegating that placement to someone else. Depending on which ad network, this could delegated by several different ad networks until an advertiser is finally selected by the final intermediary. In principle this may not be a very important distinction. However, I…

> The website you are looking at did not select _any_ of the ads you see. That's irrelevant. In general the content creator gets to choose how their content gets monetized. They own the copyright after all. That ads blocking isn't considered yet a copyright violation in the court of law probably has to do with the upsides, like protecting against malware and privacy. But blocking ads for commercial reasons, like Brav…

The final point you made, where you stated:

> Note that I am using browser extensions, like uBlock Origin or Privacy Badger, but I'm only doing so for privacy reasons.

is, I think, very relevant to the entire discussion. With the way browsers work, and the way the web works, blocking ads is well "within" the allowed scope of the internet. I, you, we never explicitly consented to browser tracking. It was created when there were no rules. After it had been happening for a very long time, it was added to large TOS & Privacy agreements, and by then, was so ubiquitous that we had no where else to go.

Publishers have power over you to put ads in their pages and track you across the internet. I have a problem with both the quality of those ads and the method in which they are delivered. I still have some power over whether or not I see ads, so I chose to exercise it.

Re: Brave launches 1.0

#354

Post by jamiequint »

BrendanEich wrote: post #221
lern_too_spel wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should anyone volunteer their time to enrich Eich and his cohorts who hold the plurality of BAT?

https://etherscan.io/token/tokenholderchart/0x0d8775f6484306... Public ledger nicely allows anyone to see what's going on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurality sounds fancy but you are using it wrong, on top of what it would mean if we were talking about votes being false counting tokens as votes.

See 1c "the state of being numerous" or 3a "a number greater than another" (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plurality)

Re: Brave launches 1.0

#355

Post by nostrademons »

chc wrote: post #325
nostrademons wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two mechanisms: 1.) Less inventory. Advertisers bid for spots on the platform, which means that if there're fewer users accepting advertisers, the remaining spots will require more BAT, which requires purchasing more BAT on the open market. Higher demand + constant supply = higher price. 2.) Fewer user rewards. Users receive BAT when browsing, which they can either tip to creators or sell on an exchange (I'm not sure…

> Less inventory. Advertisers bid for spots on the platform, which means that if there're fewer users accepting advertisers, the remaining spots will require more BAT, which requires purchasing more BAT on the open market. Doesn't this assume that advertisers would be willing to pay more for fewer eyeballs? That seems like a pretty big assumption.

If they aren't, then the price remains unchanged, advertisers drop out of the market for BAT, and fewer ads are served. Again, you reach equilibrium, except that people who do not feel the current price of BAT is worth their attention don't have to put up with ads, marginal advertisers who get little value out of the advertising don't run them, and Brave makes less money. This also creates incentives on Brave to ensure that their advertisements are targeted effectively (so advertisers are willing to pay more), that they're unobtrusive (so users are willing to put up with more), and that the market for BAT is efficient (so value isn't lost in transaction costs).

Markets and negative feedback mechanisms are extremely powerful things. Most of the things wrong with the modern corporate economy can be traced back to markets being replaced by hierarchical organizations with positive feedback mechanisms (eg. corporations having more money with which to buy up competitors, which leads to increased pricing power, which leads to more money to buy up more competitors; or increased lobbying spending leading to favorable regulations, which keeps competitors out, which raises prices, which leads to more money for lobbyists).

Re: Brave launches 1.0

#356

Post by techntoke »

etr71115 wrote: post #254
techntoke wrote: post #25

Offers 3-6x faster browsing than what exactly, browsing with IE or Edge without any ad blocking?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgl7FLh7QsA

Weird to watch how long it takes to load a single site using their demo video. Makes me think that they are using some type of preloading, which would mean that your web requests are actually being sent to Brave. It appears after some brief research that they are infact precaching, and the other browsers they are testing against we don't have any details on their configuration but can clearly see that they do not have uBlock Origin enabled. I wouldn't consider this a fair test.

Re: Brave launches 1.0

#357

Post by radlad »

mkl wrote: post #332
bsclifton wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tokens get set aside (tracked only in the user's browser) but nothing happens until you verify on https://creators.brave.com/ Once you verify, the tokens will leave the user's wallet and are put into a wallet (called a card) with Brave partner Uphold. If you want to convert the tokens to your local currency and put into your account, there's a "Know Your Customer" process that the government makes sure is enforce…

> there's a "Know Your Customer" process that the government makes sure is enforced Which government, the US one? Who is the customer here, the person being paid?

According to Wikipedia: Australia, Canada, India, Italy, South Korea, Namibia, New Zealand, South Africa, United Kingdom, United States, Luxembourg, Singapore, and Japan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer#Laws_by_cou...

Re: Brave launches 1.0

#358

Post by djsumdog »

judah wrote: post #13

I've been using Brave rewards, both as a user and a content maker. It's really great, and I feel this may be a reasonable alternative to the invasive trackers+ads we have today. For the uninitiated, Brave lets users opt-in to Brave rewards: - You set your browser to reward content creators with Basic Attention Token (BAT). You set a budget (e.g. 10 BAT/month), and Brave distributes it the sites you use most, e.g. if…

I preferred the Flattr model, of just paying the content creators directly without the ad middle ground. I don't really see why I should use Brave over something like Firefox with uBlock Origin.

I actually drop people on Patreon when they start adding ads or sponsors into their podcasts or videos. I would rather people be fully supported by their fans instead of double dipping into both fan support and adverts.

Re: Brave launches 1.0

#359

Post by jamiequint »

didericis wrote: post #344
jamiequint wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no easy way to set up an own advertising network for every website Huh? This is trivially easy with DFP or if you're smaller AdGlare/AdZerk/etc > You will find that everyone except google has terrible CPMs. This is objectively false. OpenX, Amazon, Rubicon, AppNexus, Pubmatic, etc all pay better than Google for large pockets of inventory. Google has the largest distribution, but their CPMs are awful for a v…

It might be trivially easy for you, as you seem to have experience, but I don’t think it’s easy for your average joe who wants to set up a blog, local news site, forum, etc.

It's not easy for many people to set up a blog, local news site, or forum. Does that make those things unethical too?

Re: Brave launches 1.0

#360

Post by buboard »

jamiequint wrote: post #324
buboard wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does make it more ethical. There is no easy way to set up an own advertising network for every website, ads are pennies. > Brave's effective CPM You will find that everyone except google has terrible CPMs. I like the fact that they are exploring new delivery technologies though

>There is no easy way to set up an own advertising network for every website Huh? This is trivially easy with DFP or if you're smaller AdGlare/AdZerk/etc > You will find that everyone except google has terrible CPMs. This is objectively false. OpenX, Amazon, Rubicon, AppNexus, Pubmatic, etc all pay better than Google for large pockets of inventory. Google has the largest distribution, but their CPMs are awful for a v…

setup DFP and find advertisers where? The ad networks you mention either exclude 95% of websites or pay worse than adsense for long-tail websites. You can find testimonials about them in tons of sites
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