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Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

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Re: Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

#351

Post by sincerely »

pfdietz wrote: post #246
mcv wrote: post #170

I'm in the process of switching as much as possible to Firefox. I now use Firefox Mobile on my smartphone, and my new laptop doesn't even get Chrome. And in many ways, it's been a breath of fresh air. Firefox gives my much more control over my privacy, and even recommends some extensions to improve it further. A couple of websites are sadly broken on my Firefox setup, but I can live without them. I want to get back t…

> I want to get back to the content-driven web rather than this ad-driven web we have now. Are you prepared to pay for it?

Are you under the impression that the people creating the web content of the 90s and 00s were being paid for it?

Re: Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

#352

Post by scrdhrt »

geitir wrote: post #209
rusk wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

has anyone else noticed a marked decline in the quality of Google search results over the last 12 months? I swear, around about 2011 I thought Google was going to become self aware but it's declined from that high-point to a point where duckduckgo has become a viable alternative for more than just reasons of privacy. Which is a great thing! Turns out "Don't be Evil" was more than just a feel-good marketing slogan. It…

I don't know about overall quality of search, but did stack overflow do something to fall out of Google's good graces? I swear unless I specifically include stack overflow in my search query it's either near the bottom or not include at all. Instead it's a whole bunch of articles from independent websites. This is for questions I know fit the bill for stack overflow too. It's almost like Google is artificial lowering…

This is my experience too, and also in other areas. I have to include "stack overflow" or "forum" keywords to actually find something useful on the first or second page. Example: drone racing discussions.

Re: Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

#353

Post by zyx321 »

tylerl wrote: post #342
haberman wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that very worryingly vague. In my reading though, that only applies to YouTube itself ("the Service"). It seems to be saying that your Google account can lose access to YouTube, not that you can lose access to your Google account.

Losing access to ALL Google services happens because of abuse signals. I don't know of any other instances where global bans happen.

Abuse signals, as determined by a machine learning system that is a complete mystery to even its creators.

But that's beside the point. Losing the ability to receive email is not something that should ever happen under any circumstances.

Re: Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

#354

Post by AsusFan »

ac29 wrote: post #348
AsusFan wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't be laughing for long, I believe. See this FAQ: https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2019/09/03/mozillas-manifest... Note how they say: "We have no immediate plans to remove blocking webRequest and are working with add-on developers to gain a better understanding of how they use the APIs in question to help determine how to best support them." "No immediate plans" is weasel-speak, as is "[we] are working with add…

"Google wants to drop support for blocking WebRequests, which will cripple certain extensions, others might not even work at all. Mozilla is not going to follow this destructive path. Instead, they will keep allowing the use of blocking WebRequests and investigate how to address the issue differently." https://gist.github.com/Lusito/dd6b76b93f83267903619103745cc...

That isn't an official communication from Mozilla. That is "someone's" recollection of something "someone" said (or not) at some workshop:

"Fair warning: I don't speak for Mozilla. Everything I say here is a recording of my memories from that event. Nothing more. Nothing less."

(and yes, I noticed that the second "someone" is Mozilla's "Add-ons Policy Policer, Thunderbird Council Chair", but my point still stands: this is something "someone" said, not Mozilla's official position)

Re: Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

#355

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

pen2l wrote: post #305

This is not as terrifying to me as the other news brought to my attention by a post in today's Reddit's r/YSK, that if you use Adblock, your gmail can be closed. In the new TOS of Youtube [1], it states that if your account is not deemed commercially viable, your Google account (i.e. your Gmail, your Google Photos, your Google Drive, etc.) can be closed down: YouTube may terminate your access, or your Google account’…

Fortunately, for privacy-conscious people this is not a huge problem as we're usually running Google apps in a separate workspace already. It sure is a problem for mobile users though as ads in general are a huge battery drain.

Re: Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

#356

Post by danShumway »

jefftk wrote: post #306
BurnGpuBurn wrote: post #112

The biggest advertising company in history tries to kill blocking advertisements in their browser? How am I not surprised. I bet this move is also to kill the workings of extensions like DecentralEyes and others that try to protect users from being tracked. The whole changing of the API into a "sure we'll block that URL for ya, sometimes maybe" model reeks of increasing user tracking. They'll work out the kinks to le…

Would anyone like to make a bet on whether ad blocking will still work in Chrome in two years? Something like "if you visit the top ten publishers in the US in Chrome Desktop with the best ad blocker will you see more ads than if you use Firefox Desktop with the best ad blocker"? (Disclosure: I work at Google, not on Chrome, and don't have any inside information on this)

Sure, I've been trying to make more tangible predictions about the future lately. I don't bet money, but if I'm wrong, you can come find me online and publicly tell me I'm wrong.

I will make a public prediction that after one year of Manifest V3 actually shipping to users in mainline Chrome:

- Assuming that Manifest V3's declarative API is not significantly changed from its current implementation.

- If you visit each of the top 10 publishers in the US (including open publishing platforms like Twitter/Facebook/Youtube)

- If you compare Chrome and Firefox, each with the most-recommended ad-blocking/tracker-blocking extensions on their equivalent web stores installed (currently Ublock Origin, but we'll leave it open. "Most recommended" means that among technical users, this extension is the most commonly recommended. There's a little ambiguity here, but not sure how to narrow it.).

- Firefox will block more web trackers (65% likelyhood).

- Firefox will block more visible ads and popups (55% likelyhood).

There are a couple of reasons why I feel comfortable making those two predictions:

- Twitter and Facebook both try really hard to get around adblockers, and Firefox will be more likely to be able to combat their strategies in the future.

- Extensions like Privacy Badger will already have a more difficult time working in Manifest V3, so there's potential for new adblocking strategies to develop in Firefox that can't be ported.

- Safari made similar changes, and it's already less effective than Firefox at adblocking, so it seems reasonable to guess that Chrome will follow the same path.

- Properly configured, Firefox is already better than Chrome at blocking web-trackers, and I think Firefox will roll those changes out by default to ordinary users before Chrome does.

There are a few reasons why I'm hedging my bets:

- The advertising market is volatile, and might change significantly in the next year (privacy laws, etc...) This is unlikely, but not so unlikely that I can completely discount it.

- Chrome has research teams working on some interesting privacy strategies. I think it's mostly just talk and they won't do much of significance in a year, but I can't completely discount it.

- A mass exodus to Firefox could force Chrome to adapt Manifest V3 to be more open. This is also unlikely, but again, I can't completely discount it.

- And just general uncertainty, because the longer out you predict the more uncertainty you should introduce.

55% and 65% seem like very low numbers, but I think they're a relatively bold prediction. If Firefox and Chrome are blocking basically identical numbers of trackers/ads, that doesn't count as a successful prediction. I'm not going to be pedantic about, "Chrome randomly saw one more ad on exactly one website." Right now, I consider Chrome and Firefox to be equal in terms of adblocking capabilities. So even a 50% guess would be saying, "there's a one-in-two chance that something changes and Firefox will just be an objectively better browser for adblocking."

Re: Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

#357

Post by sp332 »

falcolas wrote: post #323
haberman wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that very worryingly vague. In my reading though, that only applies to YouTube itself ("the Service"). It seems to be saying that your Google account can lose access to YouTube, not that you can lose access to your Google account.

It's recently been proven that the two are one in the same (look up the "Markplier YouTube Ban").

*Markiplier

Re: Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

#358

Post by wayneftw »

pen2l wrote: post #305

This is not as terrifying to me as the other news brought to my attention by a post in today's Reddit's r/YSK, that if you use Adblock, your gmail can be closed. In the new TOS of Youtube [1], it states that if your account is not deemed commercially viable, your Google account (i.e. your Gmail, your Google Photos, your Google Drive, etc.) can be closed down: YouTube may terminate your access, or your Google account’…

I don’t sign in to any of their web properties ever. I do have a Google account for Gmail, but I only use it from my various mail clients.

They probably know who I am though when I browse “anonymously”. Am I at risk?

Re: Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

#359

Post by penagwin »

SimeVidas wrote: post #338
pen2l wrote: post #305

This is not as terrifying to me as the other news brought to my attention by a post in today's Reddit's r/YSK, that if you use Adblock, your gmail can be closed. In the new TOS of Youtube [1], it states that if your account is not deemed commercially viable, your Google account (i.e. your Gmail, your Google Photos, your Google Drive, etc.) can be closed down: YouTube may terminate your access, or your Google account’…

I have AdBlocker for YouTube in Firefox on desktop, but I use the app on mobile, which shows me ads normally, so I guess I’m fine?

Unfortunately nobody knows, and you have little to no recourse if they ban you :(

It's insane to me that Google has gotten so hostile, they place little to no value on individual accounts, meanwhile those accounts are the lifeline of so many individuals and businesses.

Re: Google Begins Testing Extension Manifest V3 in Chrome Canary

#360

Post by frabert »

tristor wrote: post #347
ifdefdebug wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my mechanic mounted a new transmission from another brand without telling me beforehand that he intended to do so, and I found out later, then I would immediately lose all trust in such a mechanic.

Same here, and I understand cars. This is repair fraud, actually, and a criminal offense in the US. If I paid for and was told I would receive an OEM part and instead I got some aftermarket part off RockAuto, I'd be beyond pissed off and I'd get my recompense somehow. I understand the grandparent point, but their analogy is terrible. When you are paying for a specific brand of item and you get an alternative brand wi…

Never did I mention I had specified a model/brand. I just went to the mechanic and asked him "fix my transmission". Whatever the way he does it, if it works it's good to me.
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