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The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

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Re: The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

#351

Post by RobertRoberts »

balfirevic wrote: post #76
defective wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most weight your body actually loses (as in not water) is lost as carbon in the CO2 you exhale.

Right, but that's just regular metabolism. In the context of this thread, parent poster claimed it wasn't all that's happening and it certainly won't account for 0.5 lbs of mass lost during the night (mentioned elsewhere in this thread).

It seems I have to be careful about my statements. I lost .5 lbs of mass (on average it was over this like .57 lbs) every day for 30 days. Some days I lost more some less.

What I found was that during the day I gained weight consistently from morning till night. I drank water, ran (2 miles then later 3 miles around 4:30pm) ate food (one meal at around 5:30pm), sweated on my runs, bowel movements were every couple days, urinated multiple times a day.

But, consistently gained weight morning -> night. I measured my weight Morning > noon > evening (before meal) > night (before sleep). Only in the morning after urination did weight leave my body. Otherwise is consistent gains.

People want to claim "it's all water", but that is nonsense, as I lost 15+ lbs that month.

So, during a few days, I stayed up all night, no extra water in the night, no urination until morning to see if it was just that 8 hour period (approx) that caused the final loss of total weight to get me to my lowest measurement of the day.

Nope. I had not lost any (or negligible weight, I was still at or near night weight). After I slept, (I'd wake in the afternoon) urinate, and I was back to my expected morning weight - with the average loss of .5 lbs.

Sleep has an effect on the processing of urine related to the expulsion of waste and the metabolism of fat. That is my theory. A lot of people here are calling this asinine, so be it.

If you are up for experimenting, weigh yourself in the morning and night for a week. Then stay up all night and weigh yourself in the morning, then after you get a nap. Then tell me I am crazy and there's nothing to this effect.

Re: The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

#352

Post by RobertRoberts »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #22
RobertRoberts wrote: post #9

I did tests for weight loss. I found that you don't lose weight until you sleep. (stay up all night and weigh your self repeatedly, in the morning, no loss, but after you sleep and wake, your weight goes back to "morning weight") I found that if you don't sleep well, you don't lose as much. If you eat too late before going to bed, you don't lose as much. If you adjust your diet (however you want is my experience) to…

>I found that you don't lose weight until you sleep. You may just not notice it until you wake up, but you can certainly lose weight during the day if you aren't eating and you are exerting yourself physically.

I think I can "process fat" during the day, but I did not lose weight. I consistently gained weight from water and food in take from morning -> night. Only after a full night sleep did I go back to the previous morning weight - .5 lbs average loss.

Re: The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

#353

Post by RobertRoberts »

ebg13 wrote: post #48
RobertRoberts wrote: post #9

I did tests for weight loss. I found that you don't lose weight until you sleep. (stay up all night and weigh your self repeatedly, in the morning, no loss, but after you sleep and wake, your weight goes back to "morning weight") I found that if you don't sleep well, you don't lose as much. If you eat too late before going to bed, you don't lose as much. If you adjust your diet (however you want is my experience) to…

> I found that you don't lose weight until you sleep. Unless you stop breathing during the day, this is super absurd. All non-water non-food weight leaves the body as exhaled carbon (and I suppose also trivially as radiated heat energy). Or are you suggesting that people only exhale CO2 when they sleep?

I said "weight" not "mass". And yes, I consistently gained weight all day (water + food intake), and did not return to morning weight (minus actual fat used up, about .5 lbs a day on average) until after sleeping.

I think the amount of weight lost through exhaling is minimal compared to urinating and defecation. And defecation is almost none at all. (my tests showed that bowel movements have very little affect on weight)

Re: The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

#354

Post by kerkeslager »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #349
kerkeslager wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Over time. I was not dehydrated at the end of the month, but I was 15+ 1bs lighter, and my neck, waist and limbs were slimmer. That establishes what month you lost fat in. It does not establish what time of day you lost fat in. It does not establish that you lost fat through your urine. I totally believe you that you lost weight in a month; I'm not objecting to to that claim. The claims you made that I am objecting…

This is getting too long to respond to all of these. So I will just address your first points: >1. That you know what time of day you lost weight in. I have no idea when _fat_ was processed, never my point. I know _exactly_ when my weight diminished. (I feel like I did not make this point very clear before) >2. That you know you lost weight primarily through your urine. >You did not control for water weight when test…

> I have no idea when _fat_ was processed, never my point. I know _exactly_ when my weight diminished. (I feel like I did not make this point very clear before)

I'm pretty sure you've been clear. Your idea is:

1. Fat is processed into fat waste at some point. 2. Fat waste comes out in urine in the morning.

2 is almost completely wrong, and you've provided no evidence for that assertion.

> It is well understood method to weigh yourself every morning to ensure you aren't measuring water weight loss. Feel free to argue against this standard, it's not my personal belief. I do believe doctors and physical trainers, etc... all use this standard.

In a scientific experiment, you control for a confounding factor by isolating the phenomena you are measuring from another phenomena that might screw up your measurements.

If you're measuring your weight every day, the confounding factor is the weight of things that aren't you: water/food/waste. So you separate out weighing you and weighing the water/food/waste by weighing yourself when there's the least water/food/waste in your system. So this is how you control the measurement of your weight for water weight.

If you're measuring the weight of waste products that come from processing fat, the confounding factors are still water/food/waste in your system, but the waste products that come from processing fat are mixed in with them, and there's no way to measure them separately. Measuring in the morning doesn't fix this problem. So this doesn't control the measurement of the waste products that come from processing fat's weight for water weight.

It is well understood that 85% of fat weight lost is exhaled as carbon dioxide, so if you're going to tell me what is well understood, you might actually want to find out more of what is well understood.

Re: The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

#355

Post by kerkeslager »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #350
kerkeslager wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think if I was to make a theory it would be something like "fat used up during the day produces waste that is partly stored in the body after being used, but during sleep is when this waste is collected and expelled in the urine." And how did you detect the fat waste in your urine? > This is a rough guess, but since I haven't seen anything like this reported anywhere I figured it's worth sharing the experience. T…

> And how did you detect the fat waste in your urine? I didn't have a method to test for fat in urine. But I could measure the fat loss around my waist, neck and limbs over time. Lots of science works in this way where you can't measure something directly, so you must use the surrounding effects to measure it, it's totally valid measuring technique. >expelling fat waste products through your urine? The answer is, you…

> If you want to argue that fat turns into water, and then water goes out as urine, then I agree with you 100% (though I'd argue it's not pure water)

I don't want to argue that.

> and I would add that that process seems to be only be fully completed after sleeping.

This is the nonsense that I would like to argue against.

> (experimental proof of this can be demonstrated by anyone with a scale that is able to stay up all night)

Okay, please tell me the numbers that you collected that you think prove this.

> Mayo Clinic: "These waste products — water and carbon dioxide — are excreted in your urine and sweat or exhaled from your lungs."

That link does not say when during the day it happens.

I'll also point out that I've been saying all along that fat waste is 15% water and 85% carbon dioxide, so if you think that disproves what I said, either you didn't read what I said, or you didn't read what you linked.

I'll also point out that you said:

"The reason I don't think the carbon dioxide thing is the primary method of weight loss is because of my tests, where your body weight simply does not normalize until after sleeping. I think the majority of the fat (by weight) comes out in urine."

Could you do some basic research please, and find a source which says the percentages of fat and water? I've conveniently linked one for you:

"So, for example, to burn 10 kilograms (22 lbs.) of fat, a person needs to inhale 29 kg (64 lbs.) of oxygen. And the chemical process of burning that fat will produce 28 kg (62 lbs.) of carbon dioxide and 11 kg (24 lbs.) of water, the researchers calculated."

[1] https://www.livescience.com/49157-how-fat-is-lost-body.html

Re: The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

#356

Post by RobertRoberts »

jniedrauer wrote: post #43
RobertRoberts wrote: post #9

I did tests for weight loss. I found that you don't lose weight until you sleep. (stay up all night and weigh your self repeatedly, in the morning, no loss, but after you sleep and wake, your weight goes back to "morning weight") I found that if you don't sleep well, you don't lose as much. If you eat too late before going to bed, you don't lose as much. If you adjust your diet (however you want is my experience) to…

Your body is metabolically active whether or not you're asleep. You can definitely lose weight during the day. It's possible to burn an entire pound of bodyfat in a single day with sustained aerobic activity. It's not even difficult to lose 5+ lbs throughout the course of a day from muscle glycogen and corresponding water loss. Even on rest days, I find that I am sometimes lighter before bed than I was when I woke up…

I agree completely that you "metabolise fat" all day long. I communicated this poorly in my original post.

In my experiments (using the widely understood concept of "morning weight = true weight") the fat I burned did not come off my body in a measurable way until after I slept. If I didn't sleep, my weight did not diminish until I did. The worse/less sleep I had effected the amount of weight I lost.

Re: The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

#357

Post by RobertRoberts »

maneesh wrote: post #52
RobertRoberts wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but I found something more specific. I tracked weight loss for a month. Eating only one meal a day. I recorded multiple times a day my weight. Only in the morning did I actually record any "loss". So, I did some tests for this. I stayed up all night to see if I lost weight in the morning like every other day, but I didn't. I slept, woke up in the afternoon, and I had lost .5 pounds from the previous day. Someth…

Did you ever test exercise? Just yesterday, before my workout (squats and bench press, no cardio), I weighed 202. Just after my workout, I weighed 200. I've seen myself lose up to 5lbs before and after a workout.

Yes, I weighed myself before and after exercising multiple times, and there was a slight shift, but a glass or two of water evened the weight back out immediately. So, I would chalk that up to simple water loss. (like you and other have as well)

Re: The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

#358

Post by papito »

kelnos wrote: post #196
papito wrote: post #64

After 30, one should seriously evaluate breakfast. Three meals per day becomes just too many calories to burn. Two meals for an adult is plenty. Coffee in the morning suppresses hunger, so one can go until 12-12:30 before getting woozy. At some point I noticed that I was force-feeding myself lunch if I ate breakfast. Hunger is a normal feeling - embrace it.

Unless you're doing intermittent fasting, there's no reason for this. Eat smaller portions and/or lower-calorie food for each meal and you'll be fine. I rarely eat breakfast, but not for metabolic reasons; I tend to sleep in and don't feel hungry until lunch time. Really, though, do what works for you. But giving blanket advice like this isn't so great.

Well, that's why I said "evaluate" :) Or I guess "re-evaluate" is more precise.

Re: The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving

#359

Post by RobertRoberts »

kerkeslager wrote: post #354
RobertRoberts wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting too long to respond to all of these. So I will just address your first points: >1. That you know what time of day you lost weight in. I have no idea when _fat_ was processed, never my point. I know _exactly_ when my weight diminished. (I feel like I did not make this point very clear before) >2. That you know you lost weight primarily through your urine. >You did not control for water weight when test…

> I have no idea when _fat_ was processed, never my point. I know _exactly_ when my weight diminished. (I feel like I did not make this point very clear before) I'm pretty sure you've been clear. Your idea is: 1. Fat is processed into fat waste at some point. 2. Fat waste comes out in urine in the morning. 2 is almost completely wrong, and you've provided no evidence for that assertion. > It is well understood method…

It is well understood that sleep effects weight loss.

My point more succinctly:

8 hours of being awake + urination = similar weight from 8 hours previous.

8 hours of high quality sleep + urination = less weight from 8 hours previously.

A simple repeating of the test will prove me wrong.

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