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I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

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Re: I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

#351
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not convinced there’s a such thing as “correct usage of excel.” What a lot of companies do is just scare entry level employees into being very careful. My friend’s girlfriend works at a place like this and people just accept all the problems with manually editing large spreadsheets because “that’s just life.” Anything in excel is a hack and most of its users don’t know any better.

What's your solution? That the manager who wanted some report comes to you and begs you to do it and in 6 months it's finally delivered and all wrong?

The manager goes to the people, who really know how to make a report (maybe that is "accounting"?) and asks them to make the report taking into account some single report specific things that they talk about. Then those people, who know how to do it deliver. They might have someone in their team, who knows how to work with dataframes, which would come in handy. Those people store the program written to generate the report from the data and are ready to modify when more is requested. Instead of doing code in Excel, they simply write their code in whatever language they use to process spreadsheets or other data sources.

If they have knowledgeable people there, it will take no longer than coding something up in Excel and will be more reliable.

Re: I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you regularly produce reports one would suppose that you would have an existing project template and know how that would allow a reasonable individual to deliver a result that isn't all wrong in a reasonable length of time not THAT dissimilar from the time to throw up a spreadsheet. This also wouldn't silo the data in the users laptop, subject it to being destroyed because the user dropped it, and limit frequency…

And meanwhile the manager that broke the rules, connected their personal copy of excel straight into the database and made the company 8 figures in profit over the course of the last year just outdid you and your team of report programmers.

And meanwhile an actual data scientist looked at the data and outdid the manager by a factor of 10, by creating a more meaningful report, that is based on an actual statistically sound basis, preventing a disaster.

See, we can all conjure up imaginary people. :)

Re: I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

#353
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately no. Excel is hamstrung by having to maintain backwards compatibility for an endless number of hacks. For instance, it is notorious that 0.1 + 0.2 != 0.3 in binary exponent floating point math. Excel does funny stuff with number formatting that hides this, but it is like having a bubble under a plastic sheet that moves someplace else when you push on it -- numeric strangeness appears in different places.…

Why would anyone working with amounts in the millions or billions care about 0.1 + 0.2 != 0.3? Splitting hairs here I think.

Not so sure about that. We are possibly also talking about reports as in some other comments. Those might need to be exact. Very exact.

Re: I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

#354
I convert cell equations to visual basic so that I don't screw up the cells and so I can share my results without giving away all my code.

There are also methods to animate simple graphics for the purpose of providing high level presentations.

I 'learnt to code' by recording macros and then reworking the syntax to suit my needs. After a while it becomes much less difficult than it appears at first. And I will admit my code isn't a model of perfection, but it gets the job done.

Re: I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

#355
post #207

I work in critical infrastructure planning. My organization builds software in R, Python, and other programming languages customized for these major organizations. So many critical infrastructures, billions of dollars in planning, and just systems are built out of Excel. It's amazing. You'd assume something that services millions of people a day would have some more sophisticated and customized solution, but you're w…

Yeah it works and you don't need support contracts and then: - Fidelity's "Minus Sign Mistake": loss of $1.3 billion - TransAlta "Clerical Error": loss of $24 million - Fannie Mae "Honest mistake": loss of $1.3 billion Then you get employee turn over where new employees don't get "arcane" knowledge passed down by people who left and took their spreadsheet foo with them. Excel does not have "access control", "auditing…

Uh... You have the same problem with Cobol written 20 years ago without comments.

Re: I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I can tell Access has nothing to do with making websites, so it’s unclear what Django or Rails has to do with anything. You can make apps with Django and Rails. They're not just "websites". Web apps are also still useful even when they're not public facing. > These are much harder for non-programmers to use than Access. With Access, almost completely non-technical people can set up their own database and…

> I feel that you're confusing Access & FileMaker users with users of Excel. I know several people who use or used Access / Filemaker who were non-technical with previous experience mostly consisting of Word / light Excel use. For example, my anthropologist parents used Access for analyzing their manually gathered census data for a small rural village. The volunteer docents at a local museum in my hometown used Filem…

> For example, my anthropologist parents used Access for analyzing their manually gathered census data for a small rural village.

That's surprising. Most of the time, this is what Excel & Wordpress are used for by non-techies, since both FileMaker and Access feel daunting to most of them. Maybe this is exclusive to museums? This is anecdotal, but I've worked in a lot of different industries, and in all of them everyone maintaining FileMaker or Access were also knowledgeable enough to code in those platforms ie. they were techies before they started using FM or Access

Re: I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1000. This is ridiculous. Couldn't they at least make this optional so you'd be able to switch this off somewhere in the configuration dialog, registry or command line? I hate localized apps altogether (who even needs localized Visual Studio srsly? I can't believe anybody can be competent in a .Net programming language and relevant frameworks and practices without being able to read English) but localizning some app…

> who even needs localized Visual Studio srsly? What's not to like on Oracle's localized error messages that you can't google because all the documentation is in English? Even more because some on my language omit useless words like the equivalents of "not" or "can't".

Sounds like this is being done on purpose to sell more support services and to hinder international migration of specialists.

Re: I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

#358
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In MySQL, maximum row size for non-text columns is 65,535 bytes. MySQL is limited to 4096 columns per table, and 1017 columns per table if the InnoDB engine is being used. Excel's limits are 16384 columns and 1048576 rows. I'm talking wimpy hardware here, I admit. Basically, VirtualBox VMs on a quad-core i5 box with SSD and 8GB RAM. With the VM having three cores and 6GB RAM. But it was the same wimpy hardware for Wi…

Notwithstanding the row length and column count limits, did you also give MySQL more memory? Setting InnoDB buffer pool size to 3 or 4 GB might help; its default is about 134 MB.

I think so, but don't remember for sure.

Re: I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

#359
post #276
post #10

I love spreadsheets. When I'm working out a method for analyzing some dataset, I just hack it out in Calc. Or if it gets too big, Excel. Once I've blocked it out, I move to MySQL. But I can do any database operation in Excel, or even Calc. Maybe not efficiently, but well enough. But I've also learned that basic Linux tools (grep, sed, tr, awk, sort, uniq, etc) are far more efficient for cleaning and preparing data fo…

What Gnumeric charts are you referring to? The ones I could find [1] seem pretty standard. [1] https://help.gnome.org/users/gnumeric/stable/sect-graphs-ove...

I was thinking of min-max. You can select an area of cells as a series, and so display numerous min-max lines. Also matrix and contour. Those aren't in Calc 5. Maybe they're in Excel now. I have an old Windows 7 version.

Re: I was wrong about spreadsheets (2017)

#360
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The monthly fee for Photoshop is around 1/100th of the old retail price. That works out at about 8 years of use before you have to 'buy' the software again. Seems fair to me. And for those who don't like paying for Photoshop - which, given it's an astonishingly powerful piece of software, probably means "people who don't actually need Photoshop" - there's always cheap or free alternatives that provide about half the…

> The monthly fee for Photoshop is around 1/100th of the old retail price. That works out at about 8 years of use before you have to 'buy' the software again. Seems fair to me. That's because you only think of yourself. Creatives are one of the most struggling professions, and can have widely different returns per year, and salaries in different parts of the world can be much lower. People who could afford to buy Pho…

I see many versions of Adobe Photoshop CC on The Pirate Bay, versions 2017-2019. At least one on them must work.
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