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Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

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Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not likely. Even traveling to a planet as "nearby" as Neptune by conventional means would take 12 years. Hardly within shooting range, and who knows whether our civilization will survive long enough for us to make it to even the edge of our solar system. And the OP was referring to a nearby star system, within "sublight year" range. Even < 1 light year could mean very, very far away.

They are referring to a single system... Here is the quote: >> And to think that there is likely an Easy Mode system out there. >> A habitable planet on the low end of the mass spectrum needed for a stable atmosphere with other habitable planets in-system. And all that close to another star with habitable planets, possibly in the sub-lightyear range. Yes, they mentioned another star system as an additional point, but…

>We have the technology today to launch boulders weighing hundreds of tons to Mars.

You must be joking, or you are completely unaware of Tsiolkovsky's equation.

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a nuclear-powered airtight bunker that can sustain dozens of people, but that's also buildable with 70s technology. Once you have propulsion and a ship you're pretty well there.

One of the main unsolved problems is the electromagnetic shielding, both front and back (as you need to turn to decelerate). Even at 0.08c every speck of interstellar dust has enormous impact energy, far worse than the radiation of your own bombs. AFAIK this is unsolved.

follow-up: here is what wolfram alpha spits out for a 0.1 grams dust particle hitting you at 0.08c:

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1%2F2+*+10%5E-4kg+*+(0...

it's 35% of the fission energy released by totally fissioning 1g of U-235!

i.e. I don't know whether this it's feasible to just have a heavy water & lead shield, as 0.1g is fairly optimistic to be the heaviest particle hitting you. Already at this size we're in range of tactical nuclear weapons.

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#353
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the Great Filter is real and screwing up a system is as easy as screwing up a planet ;)

...why the winky face?

Why not ? Maybe sentient / intelligent life is thriving everywhere but 99.9% of time, climate change or nuclear annihilation happens. Even in "easy mode" with several planets. I find it ironic and somehow poetic.

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#354
post #107

The note that it's an old star makes me worry though. If they're older then us, and habitable, were they inhabited? Our current era is a few hundred years of real, directed technological development. A few thousands years either side of that and who knows what we'd be looking at, but you imagine that - hopefully - the general progression of technology is forward. So if they were inhabited, what happened to them? Are…

> you imagine that - hopefully - the general progression of technology is forward.

I think this might be the key myth of our times. Our entire history is a blink of an eye along the timescales Earth normally changes on. But the last couple hundred years really takes the cake - within a couple human lifespans, we've gone from a lifestyle broadly recognizable to any human from history, to some kind of ravenous sci-fi techno-megamind with spaceships and robots. We should be scared - even on our human timescales things are changing rapidly. On Earth timescales, this is not a steady state but an event - a sudden, runaway, exponential, violent event.

We have such a short perspective that we are lulled into thinking of it as a "natural progression". But that's like jumping off a cliff and concluding the natural progression is freefall. We know this state of affairs cannot possibly last. Why keep pretending?

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit of using a cycler rather than a ship that travels orbit-to-orbit is that there is no need to accelerate/decelerate the mass of the ship, just the perishables (people and provisions for the voyage) You would accelerate a small vessel (like a crew dragon or orion), intercept and dock with the much larger cycler, then enter the ship for your x-month trip. When you near mars, you get back into your dragon, an…

> You could presumably look at using a small asteroid to provide the bulk of the "cycler", offering plenty of shielding for the trip, you'd only have to get it into position once - far less fuel requirement. Or maybe even something like, as some have suggested (not me!), Phobos: http://enterprisemission.com/Phobos.html Warning: it's kind of out there. At the very least, it's perhaps interesting as speculative sci-fi.

Grand theft moon? That's as crazy as Space 1999.

Not as crazy as claiming Phobos is an alien spaceship though, with highly places ESA sources due to announce it soon (article date 2010)

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#356
post #338
post #89

Being that close also offers us a better ability to examine it. The nearer the star, the more arc-seconds (or tiny fractions thereof) the star will appear in telescopes. 12ly is ridiculously close! It also tells us something interesting. If we presume there's nothing special about our little corner of the universe, then the distance to the nearest potentially habitable planets gives us an estimate of how many habitab…

Light Year has a technical meaning, but it is so large that I can't relate to it at all. So I tried to figure out a different unit of measure, and I came up with what I call an "Earth Escape Year" or EEY. From Earth, the escape velocity for our solar system is 42.1 km/s. EEY is the distance traveled for 1 year at that escape velocity. It is the maximum amount of time it would take to reach an interstellar object dire…

Sorry, but this does not make sense in the way you intended. Your 42.1 km/s escape velocity "from earth" is the velocity you need, relative to the sun, at earth's orbital distance from the sun, to escape from the solar system [1].

As you get farther away from the center of gravity, your speed gradually slows down and reaches zero at infinity [2].

So your maximum amount of time for interstellar travel calculation is flawed and underestimates travel time by assumedly few orders of magnitude.

[1] https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Solar+System+Esc...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about the local solar density, not an individual star's density. Obviously that has little effect on the habitable zone of a planet. My question was about the ability of a system's star's own radiation to ward off extra-solar radiation and what kind of limitations we are aware of.

Electromagnetic radiation from one star does not repel electromagnetic radiation from other stars. If it did, we wouldn’t be able to see stars at night from the Earth.

> If it did, we wouldn’t be able to see stars at night from the Earth.

Ha! I love straighforward sanity checks like this. My initial reaction was to ask myself about photon-photon collisions which are im fact possible, but your comment gives a nice Fermi bound on how rare such events actually are. Cool!

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope! Some stars are in a stable orbit in a region with some NASTY orbiting interlopers who are eating star systems every million years and have just not made their way to them yet. We have made it at least a billion or so without getting too close to a nasty body so that says something about the region around us.

I'm guessing you've read Incandescence by Greg Egan? It explores the possibility that general relativity could be discovered by a pre-industrial civilisation living inside an asteroid in a very tight orbit of one those nasty interlopers.

Egan is one of my all-time favorite SF authors. Was delighted and surprised to find his name popping up in some nitty-gritty, research-level algebra discussions recently. I haven't heard of Incadescence so it's definitely going on the list. Am also intrigued by Dichronauts too! Have you read it?

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#359
post #354
post #107

The note that it's an old star makes me worry though. If they're older then us, and habitable, were they inhabited? Our current era is a few hundred years of real, directed technological development. A few thousands years either side of that and who knows what we'd be looking at, but you imagine that - hopefully - the general progression of technology is forward. So if they were inhabited, what happened to them? Are…

> you imagine that - hopefully - the general progression of technology is forward. I think this might be the key myth of our times. Our entire history is a blink of an eye along the timescales Earth normally changes on. But the last couple hundred years really takes the cake - within a couple human lifespans, we've gone from a lifestyle broadly recognizable to any human from history, to some kind of ravenous sci-fi t…

What I always find massively baffling is, that any transmitted and recorded history is less than 15,000 vears old.

First hints at sedentariness appear around the construction of Göbleki Tepe [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

However, biologically speaking we has Homo sapiens sapiensis are around for approximately 250,000 years.

That's ~6% of our biological existence where we suddenly went from running around, building like 3 stone-wood tools and wearing animal skins to communicating across the planet in real-time.

Re: Two potentially life-friendly planets found orbiting a nearby star

#360

"just 12 light-years away" I love the "just". I know it's nearby on galactic scales but it's practically about 450,000 Earth years away with current technology :-)

Time for the travelers will go slower, for earth time will be 450k years but for travelers will be less.

Can someone explain this situation, what if the travelers reach almost speed light, they will reach on 12 years from earth perspective but for them how long will it take?

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