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SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

nytimes.com

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Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#351

Post by svd4anything »

iamtheworstdev wrote: post #26

This is all that I could think of: Privilege Points: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKcWu0tsiZM

Great video thank you.

This “Adversity” score has me thinking of an analogy to physical beauty/attractiveness. I believe there is an incredibly high correlation, especially residual to other factors, between physical traits and success and wealth. Something very unfair for those who are uglier.

Obviously the logical solution to that inequality isn’t to kick in the faces of the beautiful and handsome but instead focus on opportunities for those uglier to try and make themselves more attractive. In extremes plastic surgery for those with say cleft lip or other deformations.

Those who can’t understand the analogy says much about the source of their rage.

Hating the rich is still hate.

If the college board really wants to love the poor why don’t they come up with a plan to provide FREE tutoring to all the zipcodes in their model. I bet if they asked a few billionaires like Gates and Buffet they would even fund it.

Lifting the bottom up is not done by holding the top down. It just doesn’t work in reality.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#352

Post by portal_narlish »

It seems people are conflating "low adversity score" with "my perfect SAT score is ruined because my family lives in the nice suburbs".

I think this is just meant to add some standardized and measured context for admissions officers, like an objective version of other "adversity factors" already present in the admissions packet.

However, I think College Board have no business doing this themselves. Seems out of line and very different from standardized testing.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#353

Post by manfredo »

bilbo0s wrote: post #342
rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

Well, no dog in this race obviously, but doesn't that mean that instead of penalizing you for your parents' good character, we penalize poor rural and urban kids for their parents' bad character?

Not exactly. This adversity score penalizes people who good character (insofar as making sacrifices to provide better education opportunity for ones' kids is good character).

Family A makes $X and goes through significant sacrifices (e.g. commuting 4 hours) to live in a wealthy neighborhood with good schools.

Family B makes the same $X and lives a leisurely live in a cheap neighborhood with bad schools.

Which should have a better chance of succeeding? This adversity score says family B deserves a bonus over family A.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#354

Post by thosakwe »

xyzzyz wrote: post #350
thosakwe wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does not, at all. How can you equate a combination of 15 factors (at least two of which are not tied to any specific identity) to improve admissions results, with a Nazi policy that directly foreran the Holocaust, and singled out groups for mass extermination?

Who said anything about Nazis? Top schools, Harvard in particular, have long tradition of discriminating against Jews.

> Who said anything about Nazis?

"put a gold star on all of the Jewish applicants"

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#355

Post by darawk »

pesmhey wrote: post #326
rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

Not going on vacation is not a hardship. Edit: This guy’s parents might have actually been through some shit. Asia was not a nice place over the last century. If he had said something like ‘my parents escaped pol pot’ or something ummmm, actually horrendous, then, I mean, that’s a hardship. And had this commenter framed it in that way, then it gives a whole other dimension to the discussion. But he didn’t. I’m going…

Hardship is relative. There's always someone who's had it harder than you. His parents sacrificed things to get him the resources he needed to succeed, is his point. They sacrificed things that the parents of other kids did not.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#356

Post by grawprog »

thosakwe wrote: post #328
rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

> Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. So, a separate number being added to College Board's overall package is secret discrimination against Asian students? The "adversity score," according to the article, is calculated based on 15 different factors. The two listed (relative quality of the student’s high school and the crime rate/poverty level of the student’s home neighborhood) are not directly tied to…

I did pretty well on the standardized tests in high school. If this had existed, i likely would have scored higher than average on adversity. I would be pissed to find out my score was altered in any way due to factors outside my control. If I do well on something, i want it to be from my own merits, whatever my current situation. I don't want to be pandered to because i grew up poor in a shitty neighbourhood.

Everything i learned and can do is because of my own intelligence and skill. Fuck anyone giving me points for things i didn't work for or that are outside my control. I want to be recognized for the things i can do, not because i grew up in a broken, poor family in a low income neighbourhood.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#357

Post by dsfyu404ed »

tenpies wrote: post #218
avn2109 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Race and geography covary more strongly than ~all other pairs of parameters, such that the one is a reliable proxy for the other.

Exactly, Facebook and a few others got in trouble because advertisers could set geographic criteria which translated quite neatly to race demographics. The fact is that different ethnic groups don't seem to mix organically unless they are all quite wealthy, at which point they have more in common with their socioeconomic class than with their ethnicity.

>The fact is that different ethnic groups don't seem to mix organically unless they are all quite wealthy, at which point they have more in common with their socioeconomic class than with their ethnicity.

That goes both ways. If you've got a group of mostly upper middle class whites, Asians and Indians (i.e. your average tech company) the poor whites are going to hand out with the blacks, Mexicans and eastern Europeans. Not having much in common with the majority group is the trait that ties the minority group together.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#358

Post by thosakwe »

grawprog wrote: post #356
thosakwe wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. So, a separate number being added to College Board's overall package is secret discrimination against Asian students? The "adversity score," according to the article, is calculated based on 15 different factors. The two listed (relative quality of the student’s high school and the crime rate/poverty level of the student’s home neighborhood) are not directly tied to…

I did pretty well on the standardized tests in high school. If this had existed, i likely would have scored higher than average on adversity. I would be pissed to find out my score was altered in any way due to factors outside my control. If I do well on something, i want it to be from my own merits, whatever my current situation. I don't want to be pandered to because i grew up poor in a shitty neighbourhood. Everyt…

> I would be pissed to find out my score was altered

As was mentioned in the article - it doesn't alter your test score.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#360

Post by harryh »

darawk wrote: post #347
rayiner wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ironic thing about your post is that the adversity score is just accounting for the ways in which children are denied "equality of opportunity." For example, it factors in: "the relative quality of the student’s high school and the crime rate and poverty level of the student’s neighborhood." Your post confirms it--why would your dad commute four hours a day to live in a particular neighborhood unless he believed…

...and his point is why should his dad make that sacrifice for his kids if the SAT board is just going to subvert his efforts?

Because we don't want to live in a society that so strongly encourages "sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max)" and "My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving."

I'm all about parents sacrificing for their kids, but when the system is set up to push people that far something about the system is broken.

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