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US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

peoplespolicyproject.org

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Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#351

Post by Bombthecat »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #280
ceejayoz wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I moved from Denmark to the US, and I pay around $400 in health insurance premiums (health, eye, and dental) for a whole family. My health alone is $2,100/month for a family of four. I suspect your employer is paying a large portion of your premiums as a benefit. This is quite common in the US, and a significant portion of the problem, as people think they're getting great insurance "cheap". They're not - it's just…

I've noticed that a lot of employers don't tell workers how much they are paying for health insurance. Because for large companies the number gets rolled into a negociated contract. In my case I do know. My employer pays $930 some a month. My rent used to be $860/month. The other thing the happens is just because you have insurance doesn't mean that healthcare providers aren't trying to jack more money out of you. An…

What the...? Almost a thousend a month? That's 12k a year, just paid by employers. Where is the money going?

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#352

Post by lhorie »

Simon_says wrote: post #266
lhorie wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically I did, since my taxes pay for it. What I didn't pay for is the overhead of clerical work from two different corporations for mailing me letters informing me of how arbitrarily priced my doctor visit was.

While technically true, that's disingenuous. You paid no additional marginal cost. The incentive structures matter.

I agree incentive structure matters, and it's why I consider the OHIP model superior: "I need care and it's already paid for, so I get it", vs the US model "I pay more upfront to do the triage nurse's job myself so I can then pay again if I do decide to see the doctor after all and geez I hope I can afford the bill when it comes"

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#353

Post by refurb »

exodus_de wrote: post #294
enraged_camel wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Guess what, private insurance companies will also negotiate prices. They negotiate prices based on the size of the pool. This is why if you are a small business the rates you will get will be worse than if you were a large enterprise. With socialized healthcare, the pool is the entire citizenry, which is what gives the government substantial leverage when negotiating.

The German government doesn't negotiate anything. They set prices, period. Set them too low and you create shortages. Guess what the German healthcare system has, it's a shortage of doctors , especially specialists. German doctors are leaving for greener pastures, like Switzerland. They are replaced by doctors from Eastern Europe. Quality suffers. Waiting times are high. Most Germans are too uninformed or arrogant to…

You have a point. There are a lot of people comparing the worst parts of the US system with the best parts of the single payer systems.

As a Canadian, I will say there are a lot of people dissatisfied with the Canadian system. Likely to a lesser degree than in the US, but the system is far from perfect.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#354

Post by csa »

roenxi wrote: post #270
TallGuyShort wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't even find out what stuff costs beforehand either. I had to get a blood test. I had gotten burned before where my insurance said they covered a physical, but it turns out their definition of a physical didn't include the doctor's definition, which included blood tests. So before I had my blood drawn, I asked them to tell me what the tests would cost if my insurance didn't cover it. "It depends on how it's coded,…

'You should know the price before you agree to buy the product' seems like such an innocuous principle. Why isn't their broad-based support of it for medical care? If you need emergency care then sure, there isn't time. The vast majority of interactions with the medical system aren't that type of emergency though. People have time to choose the better of two options. They can't decide on better if they don't know the…

> Why isn't their broad-based support of it for medical care?

IMHO, it is because folks are overly deferential to medical doctors.

While a lot of the problems are actually caused by the insurance industry (a constantly changing billing code system) rather than the doctors themselves, I think folks are growing tired of being yanked around by the system.

This deference is decreasing based on my limited experience (i.e., just talking to people about their medical experiences), and it may drop precipitously soon. My guess is that most/all of the good doctors going to "concierge" will be the breaking point.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#355

Post by kradroy »

dboreham wrote: post #272
tathougies wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally you just call and say youd like to lower the bill

In my experience that doesn't work.

If you're willing to risk your credit score for a bit, just don't pay the bill. Eventually some entity down the line will accept less. If you don't want to do that, then you have to eat it; immediately or in installments.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#356

Post by [deleted] »

MertsA wrote: post #303
jdmichal wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You walked away from multiple ER visits including surgeries for less than four digits out of pocket? Maybe consider that your experience is the exceptional, not the people you call hyperbolic. My son had a laceration glued together (dermabond in lieu of one or two stitches) and that was either close to or slightly over four digits after totaling the hospital bill and doctor bill, both in network.

My son just had a laceration that needed closed up a week ago. We didn't even take him to the ER, just his pediatrician who saw him for all of 5 minutes. She didn't even use any skin adhesives to close up the wound, she just taped it together and called it good. $120 for literally putting on a bandaid that came apart before we even finished the car ride home leaving us to tape it up properly ourselves.

[deleted]

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#357

Post by [deleted] »

MertsA wrote: post #303
jdmichal wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You walked away from multiple ER visits including surgeries for less than four digits out of pocket? Maybe consider that your experience is the exceptional, not the people you call hyperbolic. My son had a laceration glued together (dermabond in lieu of one or two stitches) and that was either close to or slightly over four digits after totaling the hospital bill and doctor bill, both in network.

My son just had a laceration that needed closed up a week ago. We didn't even take him to the ER, just his pediatrician who saw him for all of 5 minutes. She didn't even use any skin adhesives to close up the wound, she just taped it together and called it good. $120 for literally putting on a bandaid that came apart before we even finished the car ride home leaving us to tape it up properly ourselves.

[deleted]

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#358

Post by tathougies »

SantalBlush wrote: post #323
tathougies wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh wait, that was too reductionist... maybe the US does a lot of good by sending food aide around the world but also causes problems... maybe the rest of the world is the same, being good sometimes and bad others, and no one nation is some beacon of light and purity that all others are constantly sucking[1] the productivity out of. I never claimed America was a beacon of light. I merely claimed that many non-Americ…

And many non-American countries have suffered from American hegemony. The US used concentration camps in the Phillipines and overthrew the Honduran government so we could have cheap fruit. Are you absolutely sure that the US provides a net benefit to other countries via its military?

> Are you absolutely sure that the US provides a net benefit to other countries via its military?

Yes, the issue at hand isn't whether the US provides a net benefit to every country, because 'every country' is rarely used as a metric against which to measure the US. Instead, America is typically measured against western European countries and 'developed' countries (so, ex-colonies, essentially). The article in question in this HN thread compares the US to Europe.

Pretty much every 'developed' country benefits from US hegemony. That is one reason why they are considered 'developed'.

How many times do I have to say that I am in no way justifying American military action or even saying it's a good and ethical thing. I am just making a very obvious observation that American tax payers pay for the current Pax Americana (evil or not) that many countries often contrasted with the US benefit greatly from.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#359

Post by sbov »

wolco wrote: post #315
JshWright wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With insurance, more complicated births aren't that much more. We were out of pocket $4k for the birth of our twins (maxed our deductible). The total 'sticker price; was over a million USD (they spent a combined 10 weeks in the NICU).

Over a million for 10 weeks in nicu? Who sets these rates?

Our local hospital tried to charge our insurance $20k for 1 hour of the recovery room and $25k for 1 hour of the surgery room.

We have a friend whose hospital tried to charge them $15k for a delivery room they never used - never used because the doctors forgot about them and she delivered her own baby in the hallway. Talk about two major fuckups in a row.

Re: US Workers Are Highly Taxed If You Count Premiums

#360

Post by petronio »

Bombthecat wrote: post #317
jdietrich wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tuition fee in the UK isn't really a fee at all, at least for most domestic students. In practice, it's more like a graduate tax. Student loans are only repayable if you're earning over £25,725 per year. Your repayments are 9% of your income over that threshold. Your loan is automatically forgiven after 30 years. Because of these terms, the vast majority of students never fully repay their loan. https://www.money…

That's sad though. This means that most students never earn more than 25k per year, even if they studied..

Actually, if we assume the previously posted £10,000/year, and three years for a Bachelor's they'd have a £30,000 debt. Assuming no interest, since it's only the amount over £25,725 that's taxed they'd have to average £25,725+((£30,000/30)/.09), or £36,836.11, over 30 years to fully repay, which I think is a much more reasonable number outside of HCOL areas.

I'm not sure if they account for inflation or have any fixed interest on the loans. 30 years without any would be pretty crazy.

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