Earlier quoted context omitted.
The all day interview process selects for a kind of person who is confortable with arduous processes. With poor scalability. IMO any team with an SLA should be avoiding these people like the plague, because they will tolerate bullshit manual processes that take all day. They have no motivation to make foolproof automated processes with good visibility and repeatability. The smartest of them will fight attempts to cha…
The downsides of avoiding the algorithmic interview process is that you will end up hiring people who talk a very good game, but cannot write code to get out of a paper bag. One of the most painful interviews I have ever seen was a guy who had a resume listing a number of interesting projects. He could talk energetically and in detail about them. Then we asked him to write some code to solve a simple problem. He said…
They Rejected Us
351–360 of 385 posts
Re: They Rejected Us
#352I graduated from Fullstack Academy, and I've been rejected outright by most companies I applied to; only a couple have given me over-the-phone interviews, and nobody brought me on-site. I have all but stopped applying, am doing freelance work to keep my skills sharp and pay the bills, and plan to start my own company in the future. My motto: If you can't join 'em, beat 'em. Edit: most companies I applied to are not o…
How do you land the first job? You have to stand out. It is possible (and even likely) that your CV is not great. The first thing I would do is to make sure to attend as many meetups as you can for areas relevant to your experience. Try to find a few experienced people and see if you can get some feedback on your CV. Reassure them that you aren't looking for an interview per se, you would like some independent feedback so that you can make your CV look better.
When you get an over the phone interview, your attitude should be that the in person interview is nearly 100% guaranteed. There should only be 2 reasons for not getting the in person interview: the job is wrong for you (which you should be able to detect) or you have flubbed the phone interview. Without being too much of a pain, get to know some senior people in meetups and chat with them about technology. Try to get some honest feedback on what they think about your potential as a programmer based on those conversations. Over the phone interviews are a bit like that -- you should have the feeling of just kind of geeking out about your chosen field and chatting with like minded people. Practising conversations like that will help you a lot. Getting feedback is really important as well.
Now, here's where it gets hard. When I'm in a big city and go to a meetup, I often find myself chatting with someone who is clearly not very strong as a programmer. Usually they are looking for work and usually I'm not interested in bringing them on board for an interview where I work. However, it's hard to give good feedback because you don't know the person and can't tell how they will react. It's important to pick up on that vibe, because of the next step.
If you find that people aren't going out of their way to rush you to an interview, probably it's because you don't present yourself as being a solid enough candidate. So this means you need to figure out what your biggest weakness is and work on that.
The biggest red flags I've found with really junior people (and sometimes even senior people) are:
- they have funny ideas that they obviously haven't tried in realistic situations because they aren't going to work. e.g, "In my foobar server code I discovered that it runs faster if I name all my variables, a, b, c, etc." Maybe not quite so stupid, but often pretty close.
- they have strong opinions on stuff despite having almost no experience "Ruby is the best programming language, OO sucks, Testing is stupid", etc, etc.
- they regurgitate stuff they've heard or read and present it as gospel "Why isn't everybody using microservices? Super-programmer Sam says you are a dufus if you don't and I believe in Super-programmer Sam".
- just generally clueless without realising it "I'm good at Rails. It's the best way to write front end apps".
What I'm looking for in a junior developer is someone who knows a little bit, understands that they know only a little bit, is hungry to learn more, enjoys programming and demonstrates a knack for learning.
Things that really impress me are people who meet me one time and if we get talking about TDD, for instance, will go away and at the next meeting flag me down and say, "I did this. Can I get your feedback on it?"
Doing freelance work is great if you can manage it. However, you should also take the opportunity to build things that will help your life (even if it's just a TODO app, or even if somebody has already written something better). Use the opportunity to practice. Write it one way. Rewrite it a different way. Listen to senior people who tell you "X is amazing, you should use X" and then try it. Go back and say, "I tried X and I'm not sure that I understand how it's better. Can you have a quick look at my code and tell me if I'm doing it in a good way?"
As strange as it sounds, this is exactly what I want in a junior person at work. I want them to be eager, humble, always learning, and engaging. I want them to bug me constantly about how to improve. I want them to listen closely to everything I say and to try to integrate my advice. People like that are gold for me and I will seek them out.
But the biggest thing is that you need to be interacting regularly with people in the industries. Meetups are best. If you can't manage that (due to your location), then devote yourself to working on open source projects, hanging out on IRC, etc, etc. It sucks that you have to work so hard at the beginning of your career, but it will pay dividends!
Anyway, good luck! As long as you are always thinking, "What can I do to become a better programmer", everything will fall into place.
Re: They Rejected Us
#353From later down in the list: "Applied to the Harvard Business School as a Stanford honors grad with a 740 GMAT, no interview. Was rejected from Airbnb for a customer support role and later was passed over for a PM role at Google after 2 phone screens. I've cofounded Y Combinator startup (Ridejoy YC S11)... Today I'm a product manager at Etsy. Timing and fit are everything." This is literally the worst rejection story…
Re: They Rejected Us
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
I used to hate when I saw JS with semicolons too. "Get off my lawn" with that naked code! Not sure when or how it changed, but I'm on the other side of the fence now. Without semicolons (unless multi-statements on a single line), JS is so much cleaner. A line break is perfectly sufficient to signal the end of a statement.
That is a perfectly reasonable opinion. However, as a grammar-nazi, I feel that proper punctuation is important. While certain poetic forms may take liberties with punctuation for the sake of the artistic expression, sentences end with a full stop--separated by a subsequent sentence in the same paragraph by two spaces--and lines of code end in an unambiguous visible token. Newline/return characters are whitespace tok…
Re: They Rejected Us
#355I graduated from Fullstack Academy, and I've been rejected outright by most companies I applied to; only a couple have given me over-the-phone interviews, and nobody brought me on-site. I have all but stopped applying, am doing freelance work to keep my skills sharp and pay the bills, and plan to start my own company in the future. My motto: If you can't join 'em, beat 'em. Edit: most companies I applied to are not o…
A couple of pointers to help you forward. First, don't give up. Keep building up your experience and portfolio. To be honest, Fullstack Academy graduate means to me that you're completely entry level. That's fine, but when I'm hiring I almost never want entry level people. And even if I do want entry level people, I've got about 1000 CVs from people to choose from (and that is not an exaggeration). Landing that first…
> What I'm looking for in a junior developer is someone who knows a little bit, understands that they know only a little bit, is hungry to learn more, enjoys programming and demonstrates a knack for learning.
I'd like to believe that describes me... now I just need to figure out how to better communicate that in my job apps.
Re: They Rejected Us
#356Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you answered it yourself. His skill set (running, managing, community, etc) are not what Google needs (as they see it). They need someone who "will contribute to a small portion of software that will be run by a large fraction of the planet's computers, but owning the architecture, project management, testing, community support, and coding? No."
If you take the tweet at face value, being dinged for a whiteboard exercise is pretty silly. But people do get hired for specific roles and just having demonstrated you're great at X doesn't mean you should clearly get hired for an only somewhat related Y. I like to think I'm pretty good at certain things but that doesn't mean I'm a good candidate, especially at a senior level, for lots and lots of roles that, while…
Re: They Rejected Us
#357Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your first job is your job, your second job is working on OSS on github to make yourself look good, and your third job is interviewing :^)
> your second job is working on OSS on github to make yourself look good Sounds good on paper. In practice, what people do on Github is worthless . I've only one company ever actually looked at what I made on GitHub. Otherwise, they'll never check out what I've done even if a project is listed on a resume. Nobody has the time or amount of shits to give to actually review your own code. Very few people I know who are…
Re: They Rejected Us
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
That one is famous. We had a quite lively discussion about it here shortly after the event. Edit: to this day I have no fucking idea what “inverting a binary tree” means, other than the interviewer was too proud to admit they made a mistake. Trees have two dimensions and “invert” is the one you can’t change.
It means to reverse it left-to-right, like a mirror. You will never have to implement this yourself for real.
'Reverse' is switching the orientation left to right or front to back. Top to bottom is 'inverting' (except in graph theory where inverting means something entirely... weird).
> other than the interviewer was too proud to admit they made a mistake.
Re: They Rejected Us
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
As he says, he wasn't a CS major. I can totally relate. I had a pretty popular DOS shareware back in the day (along with some other things). But I wasn't a CS major and would not have been able to answer most algorithmic CS questions unless I had specifically studied them for the purpose of an interview.
Fine, but don't you think companies should have some filter to choose candidates? In my company I interview often, and most candidates don't know how to code. Asking CS hw questions is a signal that predicts if they can code or not. If you're not a CS major it's ok but in general if you can't figure this question in 15 mins I don't want you to push code to my codebase. Some level of competence is ok. And I don't even…
Data transformation.
Most of us are at least partly in the business of data transformation. Few of us should be implementing trees (you want coworkers who are informed consumers of data structures, not people who think reimplementing solved problems at work is a reasonable or even sane thing to do).
The simplest one I have is this: Hand them a data structure containing a list of lists, have them generate a list of the grandchildren ordered by some property of the grandchild.
Like take a list of cars or computers grouped by make and model and give me all of the models sorted by price, or by popularity. If that's too simple, filter by another criteria and do a little data cleanup.
I've seen people drop elements, get the order wrong, scope variables too broadly and confuse themselves into grabbing data from a previous iteration, or forget to grab it entirely. And this is exactly the sort of thing that puts your team on the spot for having dumb bugs in production. Not inverting binary trees, or fizzbuzz.
Re: They Rejected Us
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
The downsides of avoiding the algorithmic interview process is that you will end up hiring people who talk a very good game, but cannot write code to get out of a paper bag. One of the most painful interviews I have ever seen was a guy who had a resume listing a number of interesting projects. He could talk energetically and in detail about them. Then we asked him to write some code to solve a simple problem. He said…
This is a real problem. If you are hiring coders you have to have a couple people in the team go deep on coding chops to ferret out the charlatans. Personally I like to show people a piece of code from a big system they've never seen and let them walk me through what it does and what they would change to make it work better. Some teams I work with also give 'homework' exercises, which I believe is fairer than trying…
This could be the first coding interview style that actually makes sense to me