Lime and Bird are growing rapidly • Hacker News Board

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#351

Post by lazyasciiart » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 6:09 AM UTC

anonytrary wrote: post #255

s0rce wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dockless bike share is a thing. They had them all over the East SF bay area for a while but a contract with the existing docked bikes got rid of them in most of the areas. I think they still have them in SF. As you guessed, many people hate them but honestly, parked cars take 100x the space, just allocate some parking spaces to bikes, problem solved.

I suggested elsewhere in the thread, it'd be neat if they included a fourth class in the model: hub owners, in addition to the existing classes of supplier (Bird), riders (customers) and the chargers. The hub owners would register their places (private residence, business, campus, city area, etc.) as bird hubs, and people would only be allowed to ride birds between hubs. This would solve the "trash/get-off-my-lawn" p…

You know bike shares with docks is a super common existing model, and dockless bike share is specifically built as an improvement to that?

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#352

Post by Cristian_knur » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 6:10 AM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #131

Beefin wrote: post #98

DC had a scooter death a couple months ago marking among the first in the country: https://dc.curbed.com/2018/9/26/17905378/electric-scooter-de... The wheels are way too small for some of the pot holes in cities.

Involving a car. I wonder if these scooters will cause a death anytime soon without needing to use a car. That would be much more interesting.

Someone died the other day in a Lime scooter after hitting a tree.

If you search for news on scooter accidents you will see they are more likely with Limes. Why not Bird? Because Bird throttles the speed according to the current laws (15mph) while Limes go sometimes up to 20mph.

Disclaimer: I work for Bird.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#353

Post by Cristian_knur » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 6:12 AM UTC

whyenot wrote: post #79

samfisher83 wrote: post #2

I loved using Lime, but I can see cities banning it like SF. You aren't supposed to ride the scooter on side walks and many people do it. People just leave it in random places and I know some cities don't like this.

Someone somehow managed to abandon one on the roof (7th floor) of my work building. Getting the damn thing down to the ground floor and out of the building was not a lot of fun. Moving it locked up the wheels and triggered the alarm. It even announced through a speaker that it was "calling the police." With some help I was able to get it down, moved into a service elevator, and escorted out of the building. The stupi…

Bird is different. They have real people answering the phone or email all the time.

Disclaimer: I work for Bird.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#354

Post by pandesmos » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 6:14 AM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #341

pandesmos wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing that bothers me. They appear to be getting set out in front of my kid’s school (in sets of 4), and it’s the natural inclination for kids to want to run jump and play on them. So now there’s this sort of quandary I have as a parent: do I tell my kids and or other kids to not play on these scooters? And to take care of them? Where should I draw the line? I don’t see them in poor areas of town, so it’s…

> These scooters (despite their benefit) are ultimately taking money out of the community (if they’re profitable) and they’re budgeting for loss and damage, so why not let the kids play on them and damage them? This is pretty much the same argument as people who litter at ball games and then say "The cleaning crew will pick it up. That's their job."

Maybe, and maybe that's part of why it's bothering me. I don't have a frame in which to easily sit it.

I think that's a good analogy, but it's not quite right imo. The important factor for me is that, in this specific case the distributor (or whoever is putting them out) is placing them directly in front of a school.

Potential consumers of the service are socially expected to do work to maintain something they didn't put there or ask for and it's being purposefully placed in more naturally risky location. Or they're being placed in a way that's not very nice to others (blocking sidewalks or bike racks).

In the ball game scenario the consumer has chosen to get popcorn, made a mess (either purposefully or accidentally) and then chosen to leave it for others to take care of. So the consumer is being personally irresponsible.

My interpretation is that the scooter companies are being personally irresponsible, but then sort of making it look/feel like the potential consumers are being irresponsible?

You put your backpack in the main walkway of the airport. I tripped over it. Things spilled out of the backpack. Should I feel bad and try and pick up those things? Does that answer change if I see you doing the same thing every single Wednesday when I fly out?

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#355

Post by scarejunba » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 6:14 AM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #136

briandear wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helmets are important (I always wear one,) however, government ought not force people to wear them. Freedom still should matter. Grown adults should be able to make their own decisions. I support helmet laws for the under 18 crowd, but for grown adults? Too much nanny state for my liking.

One reason people might disagree is that you're pushing the externality of your own safety onto others. An example of an externality: those who don't wear helmets and crash are much more likely to have a brain injury (or death). This means that we all have to pay for your care now. In death (lack of taxes) or in financial damage. And in some cases like safety standards, people will also argue for emotional safety as…

Drinking half a liter of wine exposes you to as much risk as a bicyclist traveling twenty miles. Are you ready to have drinking regulated? We might need to register you with our central database to ensure that you do not exceed your government-mandated allowance of alcohol consumption for the day.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#356

Post by Uehreka » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 6:14 AM UTC

shaklee3 wrote: post #320

Uehreka wrote: post #27

I live in Baltimore and these things have been awesome. Over the summer and early fall, I used them a lot for trips that were between 3-15 blocks. They were usually less than half the price of a Lyft, were fun to drive, don't directly use fossil fuels and were usually available (in one app or the other) within a block or two of my house. I used them to meet friends for brunch, to pick up my car from getting worked on…

That doesn't seem comprable to lyft when you can't order one to show up wherever you want.

My order of operations (if the weather is good and I’m going somewhere in that range) is to look at Bird and Lime to see if there’s a scooter within a block or two and call a Lyft if there isn’t. If there is, I save the time I’d spend waiting for a Lyft.

Given that I perceive fossil fuel savings, I feel it’s worth it to check and try to lean towards this method of transport.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#357

Post by lazyasciiart » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 6:15 AM UTC

stuart78 wrote: post #179

bb2018 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not be more upset that people who have stated progressive goals such as cutting down on fuel and providing cheap public transportation are against these. They are an absolutely great alternative that makes these goals possible without having to completely overhaul city designs. The only externality really seems to be they are parked in random places - but I don't see how that is any different than cars parked…

Cars park in designated spots on streets, they are (generally) not randomly dropped onto sidewalks and parks. The issue for me is the co-opting of public space for private enterprise in the least considerate way possible. People leave these scooters like litter in parks, sidewalks, and lakes. You could object that this is an overly precious perspective, but I would counter that similar startups (ZipCar most notably)…

Why "some percentage"? I personally am ready to start "parking" my dockless shared bike in parking spots. I don't use cars, but I have to put up with them taking up a huge percentage of public space in my neighborhood.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#358

Post by pandesmos » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 6:17 AM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #350

pandesmos wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing that bothers me. They appear to be getting set out in front of my kid’s school (in sets of 4), and it’s the natural inclination for kids to want to run jump and play on them. So now there’s this sort of quandary I have as a parent: do I tell my kids and or other kids to not play on these scooters? And to take care of them? Where should I draw the line? I don’t see them in poor areas of town, so it’s…

I think its about the same as telling your kids not to vandalize vending machines, newspaper boxes and store fronts.

Which is legit, but at least where I am, those are (normally) not placed directly in walkways, or in a place that "consumes" an asset created and maintained by another business (i.e., a bike rack).

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#359

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 6:19 AM UTC

monksy wrote: post #119

sonofaplum wrote: post #47

Full disclosure, I'm anti scooter. People drive them on the sidewalks, leave them in front of my front door, and I genuinely hope that both of these companies, specifically, fail. With that disclosure, was anyone else horrified that the lifespan of these scooters is only 3 months? Are they really removing enough vehicle trips to make these a net positive from an environmental standpoint?

Sounds like they're leaving trash at your door. Get an angle grinder and then dump it in the trash.

[deleted]

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#360

Post by lazyasciiart » Tue, Dec 04, 2018, 6:19 AM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #160

bb2018 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not be more upset that people who have stated progressive goals such as cutting down on fuel and providing cheap public transportation are against these. They are an absolutely great alternative that makes these goals possible without having to completely overhaul city designs. The only externality really seems to be they are parked in random places - but I don't see how that is any different than cars parked…

They are fairly commonly left in ways that make it difficult for pedestrians in wheel chairs/walkers/blind.

Yes, when I see that I move them. Just like I've spent years moving commercial sidewalk signs. Why is it only now that an environmentally beneficial and actually USEFUL item is causing trouble that the rest of you have started to care about wheelchair users and blind people?