Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well businesses and truckers/lorries should pay more to use the roads. They cause the most damage.
And they do pay more. Many thousands of dollars more.
But do they pay proportionally more, matching the impact?
NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say
351–360 of 477 posts
Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say
#352Earlier quoted context omitted.
I take issue with your thesis. Every day, I ride to work on the Metro Expo line, which was built on time (actually early) and only delayed opening because a private company couldn't get its shit together and build the rail cars on time. I'll make the case that, as a nation, we're doing fine with the ability to deliver civil infrastructure projects on time and on budget, and to manage them once they are operational, i…
We're not doing fine. "New York’s Second Avenue Subway cost $2.6 billion per mile... The approximate range of underground rail construction costs in continental Europe and Japan is between $100 million per mile, at the lowest end, and $1 billion at the highest. Most subway lines cluster in the range of $200 million to $500 million per mile." https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/why-its-so-ex...
I think the point is that while you can find your pet example of an over-budget project, other people can find examples of projects that didn't have those problems.
Rushing to post "but what about the Second Avenue Subway" in any thread on this topic is not useful, since you've provided no evidence that it's representative enough to generalize to all infrastructure projects in all cities of all states of the US.
Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say
#353It's bad. The A/C/J/Z lines still contain R32 cars, which were built 54 years ago, and are 20 years past their service life. These cars were built before the moon landing, have terrible brakes, have terrible air conditioning, and are, generally speaking, sweltering rattly deathtraps. The Second Avenue line is 100 years in the making and has a grand total of...drum roll...3 stations. That opened in 2017. But hey, they…
> are, generally speaking, sweltering rattly deathtraps
How many people die on them every year?
Are they really deathtraps? Or are they just old train cars?
Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's also interesting how people don't see public roads in the same way—people don't expect roads to cover their own expenses directly, expect free parking as a human right and bridle at toll roads or gasoline taxes. People need to see public transport as "roads that don't need cars".
Except that most of the wear and tear on our roads isn't caused by people's cars. People pay much more than their fair share of road maintenance via gas taxes etc than the industries that cause the most damage to the roads. Semis cause 1,400x more wear than cars [1]. [1] https://www.lrrb.org/pdf/201432.pdf
We need semis. We all rely on trucks for everything we buy. We don't need cars. There is always an alternative to cars, not so for trucks.
Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say
#355"The system’s financial straits have gotten worse in part because it has fewer riders, and is collecting less money in fares." If there are less riders to serves doesn't logic dictate service levels be adjusted to fit market conditions? Given that this might be the key fact in the whoke article, the article should have detailed why rider volume is down.
Why would it dictate that? Choosier consumers with more options require you to step up your game to compete. The point of the death spiral is that ridership is down due to reliability issues, which will get worse due to less fare revenue, driving ridership down further.
Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say
#356Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorting that wikipedia table by recovery ratio, I see most of the profitable ones are in East Asia and distance based: Osaka (OMTB) 137%, Hong Kong MTR 124%, Osaka (Hankyu Railway) 123%, Tokyo Metro 119%, London Underground 107%, Singapore (SMRT) 101%, Taipei Metro 100%. Clearly it is possible to have profitable subways, so I don't think we should drop profitability as a goal.
Yeah, but they offer extensive coverage and are reliable - also somewhat expensive. To get such thing for NY - you need to drill a lot more tunnels and fast and make sure trains run on time.
> also somewhat expensive
Ha, what? My old commute on the Singapore MRT - 5 stations - cost me the grand sum of SGD$1.07 (USD0.78). Even to the airport is only a couple of bucks.
Tokyo isn't quite as cheap but it's still very affordable.
Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say
#357Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except that most of the wear and tear on our roads isn't caused by people's cars. People pay much more than their fair share of road maintenance via gas taxes etc than the industries that cause the most damage to the roads. Semis cause 1,400x more wear than cars [1]. [1] https://www.lrrb.org/pdf/201432.pdf
We need semis. We all rely on trucks for everything we buy. We don't need cars. There is always an alternative to cars, not so for trucks.
Subsidized car travel is a convenience for ordinary citizens; subsidized truck travel is an advantage conferred on businesses that move a lot of stuff by truck, making their goods unfairly cheap compared to more local alternatives, or alternatives moved by more efficient means like rail and sea.
Buying less stuff > spending tens of extra hours per week getting from place to place.
Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say
#358Why don’t they just pave the tunnels and put autonomous buses in?
Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
you mean $31/hr + medical + pension and medical in retirement... again for teachers you are forgetting the fact that they have similar generous benefits and only work 3/4 of the year...
Everyone should have medical + pension + medical in retirement. How did America get to a place where healthcare and pensions are regarded as perks?
A pension is directly interchangeable with the 15% of wages you would otherwise need to save for retirement. Maybe less, to account for the (very high) risk of governments defaulting on their pension obligations.
Re: NYC subway and bus services have entered 'death spiral', experts say
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
> NYC subway fares are insanely cheap compared to the rest of the (developed) world. $2.75 single for any distance is incredibly low. Europe isn't the only "developed world," mate. My morning commute in Hong Kong (which is roughly the same distance as Brooklyn to the LES or, say, King's Cross to Paddington) costs around $0.50. I can go all the way to mainland China for ~$3.00. $2.75 is roughly the maximum fare in Tok…
The maximum fare in Tokyo is nowhere near 2.75 USD. It's kind of a moot point because there is no such thing, lol. But for example the fare from Nippori to Kichijoji, which are both comfortably in Tokyo, is almost 5 USD.
I'm only talking about the Tokyo Metro, not including transfers to JR or Toei, etc. The most expensive Tokyo Metro ticket is 310 JPY.