Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban • Hacker News Board

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#351

Post by llewey » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:55 PM UTC

thesimon wrote: post #324

llewey wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is definitely not true in Germany. There were many places that only accepted cash while I lived there. I just spent 2 weeks in Spain and there were many places I tried to eat that were cash ø ly. In Chinatown in London, as well, many places are cash only. "outside the US" is a big place, be careful to be more specific.

>I just spent 2 weeks in Spain and there were many places I tried to eat that were cash ø ly. Where? Was in Barcelona recently, even the 1€ espresso in a random cafe was paid by card.

In villages and even in some bars and restaurants in a regional capital.

Tourist places usually take cards, but the "local" places I was visiting often didn't.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#352

Post by llewey » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:56 PM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #271

Jommi wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to any place in northern Europe and it's basically only card.

Denmark is pretty much only cards, but debit cards at this point, well above 80% for retail is card payments. I normally have a few may 100 to 200DKK in my vallet, because the credit/debit card system do still fail. I haven't run into anything in the last few years where I could pay with card or mobile payment.

Between my debit card and Mobilepay, I haven't used cash in nearly 2 years living in Copenhagen so I finally ditched my leather bifold wallet and made a slim card holder out of an IKEA bag. It's only been a month or so, but so far no regrets.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#353

Post by rland » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:57 PM UTC

smileysteve wrote: post #136

ashishb wrote: post #109

https://www.bostonfed.org/publications/public-policy-discuss... " On average, each cash-using household pays $149 to card-using households and each card-using household receives $1,133 from cash users every year. Because credit card spending and rewards are positively correlated with household income, the payment instrument transfer also induces a regressive transfer from low-income to high-income households in gener…

I don't buy this because it discounts the high costs of cash controls. Cash has high costs that likely make electronic forms of payment competitive. You have - Employees skimming the till; - Theft insurance for a safe, the nightly amount in the safe - Managers balancing the cash registers with change/safe - Armored trucks picking up the money (2-3 men guarding the transfer) - Banks processing the money - Employee tim…

The costs you mentioned, though they sound physically imposing, do not approach the 2% gross on all transactions charged by card issuers.

In addition, with cash, there is another abstract (collective) benefit. It is anonymous. An entity can neither trail a single dollar bill as it moves through individuals, nor arbitrarily prevent certain individuals from spending. Electronic forms of payment are less free and less secure from a very broad social standpoint.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#354

Post by dalbasal » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

maroonblazer wrote: post #314

dalbasal wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To bring in another PayPal toe-in... Peter Thiel made some waves when he said the whole point of being a business is to create a "monopoly." His definition of "monopoly" is more similar to Buffet's "moat" than the legal definition of "monopoly." There's something very valuable in those guys' intentionally provocative choice of words.

>There's something very valuable in those guys' intentionally provocative choice of words. This isn't new thinking via Thiel or Musk. Michael Porter detailed this in his "Five Forces" article in 1979. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter%27s_five_forces_analysi...

True. Nothing novel in any of these statements.

This isn't science though, where someone discovers a thing and now it's known. Moreso, it's the current terms of the conversation. Imo, these are positive contributions.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#355

Post by a3n » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:04 PM UTC

In the early days of the Republic, individual Banks used to print their own currency. It was all dollars, but it was produced by different companies.

Now our different dollars are plastic or even just ephemeral, the difference being that they may not be universally usable. Something's definitely wrong here.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#356

Post by bzbarsky » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

pixl97 wrote: post #325

gruez wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>50% of the country is broke what is meant by this? is this the often cited "50% of Americans don't have any savings " number? in savings accounts only

>Some 50.8 million households or 43% of households can’t afford a basic monthly budget for housing, food, transportation, child care, health care and a monthly smartphone bill, according to an analysis of U.S. government data released this month by the United Way Alice Project, a nonprofit based in Cedar Knolls, N.J. that aims to highlight the number of people who live in poverty.

The big one there that jumps out at me is "child care", in terms of things that are somewhat discretionary (in the sense that stay-at-home parenting is a thing). And at $10-30k per year per child depending on where you are in the US, it's a pretty large-ticket item.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#357

Post by dalbasal » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:07 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #297

dalbasal wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To bring in another PayPal toe-in... Peter Thiel made some waves when he said the whole point of being a business is to create a "monopoly." His definition of "monopoly" is more similar to Buffet's "moat" than the legal definition of "monopoly." There's something very valuable in those guys' intentionally provocative choice of words.

> His definition of "monopoly" is more similar to Buffet's "moat" than the legal definition of "monopoly." There isn't really a difference: the whole point of a Buffet “moat” or a Thiel “monopoly” is avoiding commoditization and competition, which naturally tends to drive sale price down to marginal cost eliminating profits. That is, they are about retaining pricing power. Pricing power is also the key test for the e…

It's a test.

Honestly though, even the trust-bustiest of onlookers probably wouldn't call everything Buffet considers "moat" a monopoly. I buy fairy dishwashing soap. If the supermarket doesn't have it, I like the supermarket slightly less. If it's 10% more expensive, I still buy it. Home brand dishwashing liquid doesn't have this advantage.

That's a moat. It's not really a monopoly though, just a "relationship" with customers.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#358

Post by bowmessage » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:27 PM UTC

jchb wrote: post #129

parshimers wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, dealing with cash is a hassle, especially on a self-checkout. Arco has tried the same nonsense and I avoid them at every turn, because it requires me to a) have cash and b) stand in line to pay , rather than it taking a moment to swipe a card.

Why do you need to stand in line to pay with cash? Maybe the self-checkout machine in particular only accepts cards, but it could look like this: https://www.ecrs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/fujitsu-gene... - I see these all the time.

Arco is a gas station - the pumps don't accept cash so the only way to pay cash is to wait inside to speak with the cashier.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#359

Post by Nursie » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:49 PM UTC

thisone wrote: post #295

Nursie wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the UK, and that's kinda what I mean - since that rule was brought in, such things are basically unheard of. The most you can get these days seems to be Avios or Amex rewards points.

If you're looking for cashback cards, you may want to look around again on Money Saving Expert. They are definitely available and without a fee. They aren't huge percentages, but if you're only other choice is an airline card and you don't travel enough to make use of the miles, may as well get the cash. Heck, when MBNA recently lost all it's airline business, the card they switched you to is actually quite decent. A…

> If you're looking for cashback cards, you may want to look around again on Money Saving Expert.

I'm not really, but I did do this earlier. Looks like there are about half a dozen available in the UK, only two appeared to be fee-less, the best one being the ASDA Visa which gave 1%.

They seem to be a rarity these days.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#360

Post by Nursie » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #307

Nursie wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the UK, and that's kinda what I mean - since that rule was brought in, such things are basically unheard of. The most you can get these days seems to be Avios or Amex rewards points.

Then it shouldn't "sound really weird", since you know the regulation is fairly recent, that cashback cards existed in the UK, and that America doesn't necessarily have the same regulation.

It sounds really weird to me because it's been quite some time since I've heard such cards advertised at all, I thought they had gone out at least a decade ago.