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MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

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Re: MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

#351
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the operating temperature of a mac laptop max out at something like 35c ? That's woefully low for anywhere it gets hot, like Australia for example. It basically means that on a hot day in summer you cannot use your laptop unless you're indoors in air conditioned comfort. EDIT: Yes, I checked, the MacBook Air has an operating temperature of 10-35c and a storage temperature of -25-45c, which means that it's techn…

> like 35c > you cannot use your laptop unless you're indoors in air conditioned comfort Maybe it's just me being used to colder climate, but I feel that laptop's thermal throttling is going to be a relatively small issue if trying to work in sunlight when air temperature is +35C out there. I'd really seek some shade even when it's merely +25C...

Not necessarily in the sun in that temperature, but just say indoors where there is no air conditioning. It's not bright sunlight but it can easily get to +35c. You yourself can cool down with a fan and a cold drink but the laptop is sitting around in hot temperatures in the shade.

Re: MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

#352

At this point, people in the Mac hardware engineering leadership need to start submitting their resignations or being forced out. This kind of sloppy engineering and lack of product focus is the antithesis of what Apple has stood for. If I were Tim Cook I would fire Dan Riccio, and then resign myself and hand the company over to someone who cares about products and not supply chain optimization. Also the whole execut…

The thing is, the MBP is fulfilling Apple's design goals: they are optimizing for thinness, lightness, and battery life, not performance or thermal dissipation. As long as the thing doesn't break (in a way that can't be fixed trivially by the Geniuses at the Genius Bar) everything's fine as far as Apple's business is concerned.

But if you charge people for a CPU that has been modified or set up so it cannot achieve the advertised specs then it is misselling.

Re: MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure on an individual basis but the Geekbench numbers are aggregate across all users of the machine. I reached out to the video author to see if he'd be willing to run Geekbench on it in a freezer vs not. https://twitter.com/kicksopenminds/status/101942058846774067...

Two suggestions were made: 1. Run GeekBench back to back (realistic: a prolonged workload... which would show the Mac as being worse) 2. Working in a freezer (completely unrealistic situation... which would make the Mac seem better). Only one suggestion gets passed on to the video author. Science (Apple flavour).

I can't speak for everyone but I already run Geekbench multiple times when I use it and always have. I think most users do the same. The author is experienced in testing machines so I felt this point was redundant to state.

Re: MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loud? it's the quietest machine I ever had. No problems so far (9370 model)

Mine is the 9360 with the i7-8550U. In high performance mode, it's a hair drier. In balanced, the fan is a constant annoying whine if I have, for example, Webpack in watch mode, or am typing code quickly and keeping the IDE's language service active, or if any browser tab has any active JS at all. Basically if the CPU is at a reasonable speed and at 20% load, constant fan noise. It's quiet if I have it in "silent" mo…

I have 9360 with i5-7200U. I've just checked, fan kicks in after 90 seconds of sha1sum /dev/zero and stays always on lowest RPMs. 25C ambient. With 50% core load at 3.1GHz it stays silent most of the time...

Re: MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

#355
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, the MBP is fulfilling Apple's design goals: they are optimizing for thinness, lightness, and battery life, not performance or thermal dissipation. As long as the thing doesn't break (in a way that can't be fixed trivially by the Geniuses at the Genius Bar) everything's fine as far as Apple's business is concerned.

But if you charge people for a CPU that has been modified or set up so it cannot achieve the advertised specs then it is misselling.

Intel's CPUs are likely not modified (very much). All Intel CPUs automatically downclock themselves when they start to overheat as a self-protection measure.

It is up to the case-manufacturer to provide adequate fans and cooling for the chip. Otherwise, Intel's chips are forced to protect themselves and start to slow themself down.

Re: MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So much that it would be squirted out from under the heatblock in large blobs. Is this stuff electrically conductive?

No

The correct answer is "it depends on which paste you use".

If you're using a "liquid metal" compound, you probably want to be very careful, as it is conductive.[1]

[1] https://www.ekwb.com/blog/thermal-compound-guide/

Re: MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

#357
post #323
post #181

Every MacBook Pro I've ever owned locked it self down to low frequency after running a CPU intensive task for a minute or so. I thought that was common knowledge? There's NO laptops out there that wouldn't do that (and NO mobile devices either). This is why desktop workstations are still so much faster even though they carry same frequency chips.

What makes you think this? Lots of laptops have severe throttling issues and the thin-and-light trend of the last few years has not really helped the situation but there are certainly laptops out there that have adequate cooling systems and do not thermally throttle. I was kind of shocked when I got the original Thinkpad X1C (14" screen and weighs 3lb) that it maintained 100% boost clock with no throttling over the e…

Take the Intel's CPU frequency tool, run compilation on your MacBook and see how the clock gets locked to < 2GHz (exact frequency dependent on CPU you have) after the CPU temperature reaches a barrier (usually around 80C).

Re: MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

#358
post #252
post #181

Every MacBook Pro I've ever owned locked it self down to low frequency after running a CPU intensive task for a minute or so. I thought that was common knowledge? There's NO laptops out there that wouldn't do that (and NO mobile devices either). This is why desktop workstations are still so much faster even though they carry same frequency chips.

I've been doing hours-long CPU+GPU intensive tasks (compiling ghc, number crunching, playing games like Bioshock Infinite and StarCraft II on a HD4000) on a bunch of pre-retina MBP and rMBP 13" and they never throttled. Thermal design and management is spot on, fans stay silent most of the time and kick in only when load requires it. Beware of anecdata. Given the stories I hear I would squarely put the various issues…

My data comes directly from monitoring the CPU frequencies as I was doing development work. There's an intel tool that gives you that data in realtime.

I did mostly only have the 15" MBPs, but thermal throttling is a fact of life on pretty much all mobile devices. I do mobile development work and having mobile CPUs run at full frequency for more than a minute or two is pretty much impossible.

Re: MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

#359
post #99
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't really compare ARM and x86_64 chips. I'm going to use a crude example. Think of the ARM chip being one of those USPS Trucks ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Small_US... ) while the x86_64 is a F150 pickup. Both can drive around and transport things, but the USPS Truck is purpose build to deliver mail, stop and start frequently, and be reliable. It does a few things well. On the other ha…

What? They're CPUs. They're designed to run instructions. Intel's chips spend more energy on the really fancy stuff like huge reorder buffers and extensive speculation. They get higher IPC at lower MIPS/watt. An i7 isn't going to run iOS more slowly than whatever Apple calls their latest ARM SoC. It _is_ going to blow its lid without a big ole heatsink brick on there and a fan too, which is why smartphones use ARM co…

> They're designed to run instructions

ARM can do a small subset of what x86_64 can do. Let's say for a minute ARM doesn't have a built in H.264 decoder (they both do, but that's the one feature popped into my head).

The x86_64 chip will be able to do execute the decoding of a H.264 file that faster and more efficiently than the ARM chip because the x86_64 has purpose designed instruction to do this or make the job easier.

Another Example. x86_64 can multiply and divide while ARM can't. Both chips can do the same work, but x86_64 can multiply 20*4 in one instruction while the ARM chip has to do 20 + 20 + 20 + 20, with each one being an addition instruction. ARM might be able to add faster than x86_64, but x86_64 will still be able to multiply faster. That's extremely simple, but when you get into more complex operations ARM has to spend more time doing what x86_64 can do.

> An i7 isn't going to run iOS more slowly than whatever Apple calls their latest ARM SoC.

an i7 will run iOS slowly because iOS is build specifically for ARM. Just like how PS3 emulators take a lot of effort to run on x86_64 chips, there is an emulation overhead.

> It _is_ going to blow its lid without a big ole heatsink brick on there and a fan too, which is why smartphones use ARM cores designed for efficiency.

Yeah, because it's designed to run at a higher thermal envelope. To get ARM anywhere near the Floating Point performance of an i7 you will need to increase the power and throw some active cooling on it.

> P.S. if anything, ARM is the "general purpose vehicle" in your analogy.

I don't think so, as seen above and below.

> x64 is all about high throughput and high power on a chip you buy and plug in.

Yes, because OSs have been designed to use as much as the chip can offer it. But I can get a 5 watt Intel CPU will will run circles around a 5 watt ARM chip.

> ARM is the one where you can get an architecture license and customize the shit out of it.

Yes, so you design it to fit your specific functions. Apple's CPUs only implement what the the engineers need it to, so they can save die space by not implementing unused instructions. You are proving my example here. ARM is the Customized Purpose built USPS Truck, while x86_64 is a general purpose F150. The USPS build their truck to fit their needs just as ARM Chips are built to meet the needs of the consumers.

Re: MacBook Pro with i9 chip is throttled due to thermal issues, claims YouTuber

#360
Isn't it the case that access to 32GB currently requires more power use (hence the larger battery), and that more power use necessarily means more thermal stress? In which case there may be nothing wrong with the thermal paste or the engineering; it may simply be that Apple came to the conclusion that the 32GB was more important than the issue of thermal throttling. For my use, I would readily take computer a little slower than the 2017 model for extremely compute-intensive, long-running tasks, but that let me use 32GB of memory.

Whether they are dishonestly marketing the machine as being faster is another.

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