Meanwhile, regimes like China, North Korea or even Russia won’t have this kind of issues.
Non-trivial number of Googlers are Chinese or Russian. ;)
Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Military Contracts
351–360 of 516 posts
Re: Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Military Contracts
#352These employees are free to exercise their right to (not) work for whomever they want, but the certainty they express (as well as most commenters here) in their own self-righteousness seems misplaced to me. There's certainly a case to be made that a strong US military is in the world's best interest. In fact, I would wager that a majority of Americans (and a majority of citizens of democratic countries across the wor…
Thank you. Many want their cake and to eat it too.
You can think that if it makes you feel better, but I'd be perfectly happy giving the cake back.
Re: Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Military Contracts
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure what answer you're looking for. The world isn't static so of course there were consequences. I'm not saying the military is perfect or that everything it does is right (and much of that is due to the whims of leadership), but that having a strong military is an option that most wish they had because they see first-hand what it's like without. There is no substitute for that power and it's easy to overloo…
When America was defeated in Vietnam, the next thing that happened was not the NVA burning down the White House. In fact there was never any possibility of that happening nor a threat to the US mainland.
So every other country is some tiny 3rd world nation? You do realize there are major superpowers that are currently kept at bay through the promise of force? Or do you think they’re just being nice?
Re: Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Military Contracts
#354OT: it now takes two clicks to stop the obnoxious autoplaying video on this website. One to unmute it and access the controls, and another to stop it.
I'm glad when ethics are as black and white as military contracts we're ready to stand up and refuse to write the code, but when it comes to smaller things like implementing dark patterns to bother users we'll step right up.
Re: Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Military Contracts
#355One thing I find strange about this is why Google is so keen to get this government business in the first place. They’re amazingly profitable already, one of the most successful companies of all time; is defense work really something that could become another major revenue stream? Given the obvious conflicts with their company culture (obvious to rank and file employees, anyway) it doesn’t seem like a very appealing…
Just a guess, but perhaps being extremely rich and extremely powerful gives you a relatively small social circle, considering the grand scheme of humanity at almost 7.5 billion people. Consider also the allegations of Google being a de facto branch of the state department in When Google Met Wikileaks (2011). It may be the case these people are all friends or acquaintances and enjoy the opportunity to work with each o…
I still get a bit tense when I remember reading The New Digital Age. (Written, not coincidentally, by Schmidt and Jared Cohen - ex State Department staffer, current Google visionary.)
It is, to an impressive degree, a love letter to the US government. It shows absolute faith in the ability of technology experts to help remake the world, spreading information worldwide for the benefit of all - but only the right information. As Assange put it in a cutting review: "...this isn’t a book designed to be read. It is a major declaration designed to foster alliances."
I don't think it's particularly hard to understand Google's high-level engagement with the US government; it represents a chance to diversify revenue while supporting ideological positions Schmidt has openly embraced for years. Nor is it surprising that government-aligned leadership is facing dissent in a professional that's historically been somewhere between suspicious of and allergic to government and surveillance.
Re: Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Military Contracts
#356Earlier quoted context omitted.
The best the military does is keep stability. Google changed everything. One is static; the other, change. I don't see them as comparable at all. Anyway I've heard it said that the container ship has done more to lift the world standard up, than all the political action of the last 1000 years. By distributing goods to all the corners of the world at a cheap price.
Who ensures a Ship with South Korean flag which does not a solid Navy reaches its destination ? I understand the analogy of Container being an innovative idea. With out calm seas under-written by US Navy, its not so great. Without US Navy and its 10 carriers, we will be back to 19th century mercantilism and how much fun colonialism which is its off-shoot has been.
How can you say that the "military" get credit for preventing conflicts while at the same time not get blame for being the muscle of colonial oppression.
Re: Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Military Contracts
#357Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does the American military have to do with the economic development of, for instance, China? I'm not sure America should be credited for its adversaries' successful pushes to mitigate poverty.
China's recent economic development is the result of unprecedented levels of trade in an unprecedentedly peaceful world. That peace, in turn, is the direct result of U.S. efforts to maintain international stability, through the use or threat of military force.
China is far more stable than the US.
Re: Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Military Contracts
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
To make it concrete, currently the US spends more than the next ten countries combined on its military and associated projects and has done so since at least the end of the Cold War. It has far and away the most ships, planes, missiles and bombs. While it doesn’t have the most troops the two countries with more troops do not nearly have the same as much training or as good equipment. Presuming the OP is in the US, an…
All that American military spending bankrolled Silicon Valley. Now suddenly Silicon Valley thinks it's better than the US military that bore it?
Maybe there's more than one part of the military, and the resilient internal communications network part is different from the wedding-bombing part.
Re: Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Military Contracts
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should you move to a different country? It's yours and you have every right to be there, and every right to complain about and protest things you don't like.
Of course, but if you don't believe in what the government is doing then why would you support it, and the community you live in, with your taxes or your additions to the GDP?
If you don't believe in someone robbing your house, or killing your family, should you just shrug your shoulders and move somewhere else?
Re: Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Military Contracts
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've seen that kind of thinking in the past and it's pretty popular view. I'm just not so sure about this moral aspect. Why do you think it's more moral/ethical to abstain of supporting military? Maybe you won't do this but be sure that in some other country some similarly talented people will. If you (and many others) abstain from it on similar basis you and closest people you know may be in danger of being affected…
This _is_ a very valuable action logically let alone morally. In the next decades either we resolve to mitigate this "us or them" mentality on this earth, or pure physics and math will resolve to see the end of the civilization as we know it. Google is a US company yes, but with so many engineers from all over the world and customers from every corner of the world, who is "them" for a Google employee really? And befo…
Lemme just underline this. Google engineers come from all over the world, and Google products are built to serve people all over the world. The Googlers opposed to Maven believe that building software that enables one government to enact (more) drone strikes against civilians in other countries is contrary to the mission of making people's lives better.
Preemptive lazy answers for lazy replies: Companies only exist to increase stockholder value: Some of us hold ourselves to a higher standard.
Improved drone efficiency is better for everyone: hahahaha.