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Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

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Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#351

Post by AndrewUnmuted »

young_unixer wrote: post #157
rm999 wrote: post #57

I've had a tremendous amount of respect for Mark Zuckerberg as a leader, and have gone out of my way to defend him in the past ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17128369 ). I always envisioned whatsapp as a defensive purchase that would stay true to its initial vision (perhaps being used to prop up their other products in an unintrusive manner). But this article makes me realize Mark is s a one-trick advertising…

It's good to separate the fact that he's a good leader from the fact that facebook does harm in some ways. Hitler was a great leader too.

I don't think anybody who has bothered to read up on Hitler's leadership and management styles would agree that Hitler was actually a great leader.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#352

Post by skinnymuch »

projectramo wrote: post #81
justaguyhere wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a fan of his, but is the situation going change unless people are willing to pay for these services? Most people wouldn't even pay for something as useful/important as email, let alone social networking (I can never understand the need for something like Facebook)

Yes, someone should make a messaging app with end-to-end encryption that costs $1/year. I think it would do well. edit: this is supposed to be a WhatsApp joke.

Whatsapp never really did this. This is a common misconception especially around here. Whatsapp did $10M in revenue in 2013 and $15M in the first half of 2014. This is with a user base of 400M active users at the beginning of 2014 and 700M active users at the beginning of 2015 (and getting to 950M, 1.2B, and 1.5B over the next three years).

When Whatsapp did charge for iOS users, it was a one time payment as well. So not yearly regardless.

The app wouldn’t have the popularity it does have if it charged everyone $1 a year. That’s significant to some people vs others. Especially when looking at WhatsApp’s global user base.

Whatsapp was operating at a loss during its high growth time period before the Facebook acquisition.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#353

Post by yndoendo »

kuhhk wrote: post #205
chime wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to defend FB on this but I can see them doing this defensively. I've seen doctors offices using FB to keep patients updated with their activities (free 'Healthy Eating' seminar), which has unintentionally been used to sent messages like 'Hey Doc needs to reschedule your colonoscopy appointment'. I'm sure FB doesn't want to get involved with indirect HIPAA violations, even if the fault lies elsewhere.

Wouldn't that be on the doctor, and not Facebook (assuming their ToS says not to use it for that stuff).

Last time I checked, ToS had nothing about HIPAA. I even contacted them, wouldn't answer if they where HIPAA compliant or not. Wanted to know, just in case a doctor ever talks about communicating through them.

Any one that does communicate through them with their doctor, most likely doesn't know what HIPAA is or care.

To FB, it is the old "don't ask or tell" scenario.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#354

Post by r00fus »

jimmies wrote: post #175

>Mr. Koum, a San Jose State University dropout, grew up in Soviet-era Ukraine, where the government could track communication, and talked frequently about his commitment to privacy. Someone said that the people who love America the most are the immigrants who has to endure the crap back in their home country. I can totally relate to this. I have lived in a country where my privacy and personal judgment didn't mean an…

Are any of your family or close friends on Facebook? It's highly likely Facebook still has data on you by cross-correlating your data with theirs and along with other data streams they purchase and de-anonymize (purchased credit history) and creating shadow profiles.

I've gotten my wife to quit FB and download her data and request deletion (GDPR), and I've quit a while back and we run facebook blockers. I still don't expect to evade FB's ongoing trawl.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#355

Post by georgeecollins »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #13

I kind of have to wonder what Jan Koum and Brian Acton were thinking (OK, I don't really wonder - they got paid billions of dollars, who wouldn't do it). But, of course, if you sell a company for billions of dollars, there is the obvious expectation that within some time frame your company will earn revenue and profit to support that valuation. You can't complain "they're adding ads!" unless you have a credible solut…

When they sold their business it was not their responsibility to make sure the buyer was getting a good deal. It was the responsibility of the buyer to honor the agreements they made as part of the purchase.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#356

Post by ben_w »

tedunangst wrote: post #204
ben_w wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL, but there is a legal concept of ‘Joint And Several Liability’ — it might be the case that Facebook and the doctor were in violation. Or it might have been just the doctor until someone complained and from that point on just the fact that Facebook knew about it might make them suddenly and automatically liable for further bad behaviour.

Are there any examples of service providers being liable for such communications?

I wouldn’t know where to look for an answer.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#357

Post by emtel »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #297
emtel wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a former fb employee, and to say that they "turn your work life into a micromanagement panopticon" is way off. Overall it's a great place to work as a software engineer, although it depends a lot on your team. Many employees have minor frustrations with various things like open plan offices, oversubscribed bathrooms, lack of parking, etc. I suppose there must be some employees who quit because of these sorts of i…

This seems at odds with the photo in the OP linked article (referenced by the quote in my comment), as well as any other similar photos of what the physical work spaces are like. I mean, it seems like indisputable evidence based on the physical structure of the work space. I don't see how there's a way to interpret photographic depictions of the actual Facebook offices in some other way. It's like saying, "See this p…

I agree, the pictures you've seen on the internet definitely trump my personal experience. Thanks for setting me straight.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#358

Post by rad_gruchalski »

helloindia wrote: post #326
chinhodado wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most frustrating change for me was FB (or Messenger later) used to send me an email when I received a message, with the message content inside the email. A few years ago they removed the content from the email and forced me to log into FB or Messenger to see the message. It's extremely user hostile.

FB frequently sends notifications that is not directly related to me. e.g. "A friend has commented on a post in a group that you're a member of." Why would Facebook think this is of interest to me, is beyond my understanding.

You can change that in settings. Then facebook will not think that anymore.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#359

Post by distant_hat »

on_and_off wrote: post #110
juhq wrote: post #97

"WhatsApp also negotiated for nicer bathrooms, with doors that reach the floor." This is not a norm in silicon valley/states?

For some reason american bathroom stall doors don't reach the floor. It is very weird the first time you see them coming from Europe but it seems to be the norm here

I think its to prevent people having sex in them.

Re: Behind the Messy, Expensive Split Between Facebook and WhatsApp’s Founders

#360

Post by stevenlefty »

chmars wrote: post #88
projectramo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, someone should make a messaging app with end-to-end encryption that costs $1/year. I think it would do well. edit: this is supposed to be a WhatsApp joke.

It’s called Threema: https://threema.ch/en (Signal is free, though, and Open Source …)

Yes, but, in contrast to Threema, you have to provide your phone number in order to use Signal, which results in an immediate loss of anonymity.
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