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Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

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Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#351

Post by mikec3010 »

cwkoss wrote: post #280
snarf21 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you are saying but I would say that Amazon does NOT take privacy extremely seriously or this couldn't have happened. Let me be clear that I'm not saying they don't care at all or they are conspiring with the NSA. What I mean by the above is that the "call" skill is much different than the "weather" skill. All Alexa has to do is have a confirmation prompt in the "call" skill and this wouldn't have happened.…

> they are conspiring with the NSA There is absolutely no reason to believe they are not conspiring with the NSA. They have a huge deal with the CIA, plausible some of these funds are for surveillance capabilities. They would not (and likely would be legally prohibited from) disclosing any relationship they have. https://venturebeat.com/2014/03/18/snowden-slams-amazon-for-... https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/ar…

~~conspiring with~~ accepted an "offer" they couldn't refuse.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#352

Post by duxup »

monk_e_boy wrote: post #341
duxup wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the first voice command stuff on google. Buddy of mine was trying it out and I couldn't help myself but shout: "NEW TEXT MESSAGE TO JENNY! FUCK YOU! SEND!" Fortunately the phone was too slow to take it all (even if it had Jenny would have found it amusing, she was a cube or two away). But yeah first thing I thought of was that if it's listening how easy is it for it to mistake intent or someone else or etc…

My friend installed IBM OS/2 WARP beta when it came out, it too was voice controlled. We would shout into his room, "select all, delete" or "format c" or other childish fun commands.

Humans are terrible. When the computers take over.... I won't be happy about it, but I'll kinda understand.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#353

Post by wilsonnb »

jonjojr wrote: post #313

"My husband and I would joke and say I'd bet these devices are listening to what we're saying," Think about this statement for a sec. Of course is listening to you. It has to listen to you because it needs to be able to respond to "Alexa". So yes, this is always listening. Now, once you come to terms with that, do you feel comfortable having a technology with access to the internet, location, habits, account, contact…

The problem with this logic is that it applies to phones, tablets, and laptops as well.

There isn't much additional risk from having an Echo or a Google Home if you already keep a smartphone within 10 feet of you at all times, which most of the people who are buying these devices do.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#354

Post by squeaky-clean »

dpark wrote: post #344
squeaky-clean wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are usually 2 stages, a local processor that can only detect the wake word, and then once that hears the wakeword it begins streaming data to the internet.

I’m aware. The microphone is always on in order for stage 1 to work.

It doesn't need to be based on the microphone, it can be based on that second processor. It can be based on network activity (my USB Wifi adapter blinks whenever data is sent/received, even though it's connected 24/7, I don't see why anything else couldn't do that).

We're also discussing theoretical hardware changes, there's no reason it can't have 2 sets of microphones where one is hardwired only to the wake-word processor which has no direct connection to the main processor except some one-way signalling, and the LED is hardwired to the second set.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#355

Post by draw_down »

It's crazy to use these things at the moment, in my opinion. Maybe in a couple years the failure modes and ways these things can be used to terrible ends will be better understood. But for now, it's not well-understood how many things could go wrong with an internet-connected always-listening microphone that knows all your contacts and can buy things.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#356

Post by wilsonnb »

rectang wrote: post #19

"Always listening" is a fundamentally unsafe design. Once recordings of private conversations leave the local environment and make it to the cloud, eventually they will leak. It's akin to data collection by law enforcement: once the data exists, eventually it will be abused.

So you're saying that all data that has made it to the cloud will eventually leak? That seems like a strange assumption to me.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#357

Post by cookiecaper »

tj-teej wrote: post #317
yason wrote: post #297

I am oversimplifying here but: * install device that is designed to listen to speech in the house * the device is connected to internet * the device is capable of contacting other internet peers/services/hosts * the device knows a bit about its owner's internet presence such as contacts * the device is equipped with simple conversational user interface based on fuzzy human speech-command detection These basically bou…

If you replace "fuzzy human speech-command detection" with "buttons which can accidentally be pressed" - how is this different from butt-dialing?

a) Your phone has a microphone that picks up information spoke more-or-less directly into it. An Echo is specifically equipped with a microphone array designed to extract audio from anywhere in the room.

b) There is a great deal less ambiguity around "pressing buttons" than there is around interpreting speech. While it is unlikely that your phone will incorrectly detect button presses, it's very common for voice-activated devices to a) incorrectly detect a wake word (either negative or positively); and b) misunderstand some particular word used in the command. Your phone is not going to think you pressed the "Clothes" button when you actually pressed "Close".

c) The entire functionality of the device is accessible from behind that big ambiguous interface. On a phone, there are many distinct steps and screens to step through when you want to do something (this complex interface, by the way, is a non-trivial part of why butt-dials are quite rare these days). On a "smart speaker", most things are just one misheard statement/command away from occurring.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#358

Post by tambourine_man »

mikeash wrote: post #324
tambourine_man wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. To be listening at all times is the very definition of a tap, don’t you think? And people know this. It’s not like they are being misled. It’s a conscious exchange of privacy for convinence. It’s just that, in my mind, you are getting very little for what you’re giving.

In my mind, you’re giving almost nothing if you already have a cell phone. I made a different choice, but I totally understand why someone would choose not to have a phone or smart speaker due to privacy concerns. What I don’t get is someone who has a phone but sees smart speakers as crazy.

So, if I understand you correctly:

- You are pretty certain that your phone is listening at all times, even though it's set not to.

- You see no difference between a product that's advertised manly as a listening device and one that also has such a feature, that can theoretically be turned off, and is very useful otherwise.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#359

Post by Semaphor »

nathancahill wrote: post #190
dustinmoorenet wrote: post #140

I have this idea of a system I would like to have in my house. It contains cameras in every room that are constantly watching where people are and relaying the coordinates to a central server. That server makes decisions on if lights should be on or if A/C should be running in that room. But I would never buy this system. I would have to make it myself. I am hopeful that open source software and hardware can produce…

Check out https://www.home-assistant.io/ Open source, gets you most of the way there.

I actually used to have a solution with home-assistant, find (uses wifi signal fingerprinting for location) and hue. It worked okay with very little work (sometimes 1-5s delay turning lights on/off) but I never cared enough to put more work in to get it better.

I think "find" and similar tools are now much more advanced so it might work better out of the box now.

Re: Amazon device recorded private conversation, sent it out to random contact

#360

Post by jacksmith21006 »

Not sure why people would be buying the Echo over the Google Home any longer? The GH offers a much better UX and now is well ahead of Alexa in sales last quarter.

"Google takes top spot in global smart speaker market, HomePod nowhere to be found"

https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/05/23/google-takes-top-...

Came to the market 2 years later and already passed. This is before we even get Duplex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd1mEm2Fy08

Google goes in the lead on something they tend to not give it up.

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