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US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

zdnet.com

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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#351

Post by 8_hours_ago »

I believe the relevant T-Mobile privacy policy (that I definitely read before signing up...) is:

"With your consent. We may provide location-based services or provide third parties with access to your approximate location to provide services to you." https://www.t-mobile.com/company/website/privacypolicy.aspx

That is why a text message confirmation is required to get a cell phone's location from https://www.locationsmart.com/try/

For those on T-Mobile, there are privacy settings that can be adjusted here: https://my.t-mobile.com/profile/privacy_notifications/advert... I already had all of them disabled, and I was still able to get the location of my cell phone from LocationSmart.

I chatted with T-Mobile support yesterday to see if I could opt-out of them sharing my data. Not surprisingly, the support agent was less than helpful. "Don't worry, your data is secured"

Are there any US carriers that respect privacy and do not share private information with 3rd parties? Or is that a pipe dream?

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#353

Post by mdhardeman »

limsup wrote: post #178
addflip wrote: post #110

It's funny that this is coming up now. The other day I was on the phone with Geico's roadside assistance and they wanted to know my location. I told them I didn't have their app downloaded, they said it wasn't a problem and they could get it without it. Sure enough they could. I checked their disclaimers [1] and they purchase the data from my cell carrier. They didn't even have to know which one. [1] https://www.geic…

Wow. The fact that they can just get this with "oral approval" (relayed by them to your carrier) is shocking to me. This is ridiculous.

The other respondents to this message more or less have it right.

The way this stuff works is that when GEICO signed the deal to get access to this, they pinky-swore in a contract to only use the data certain ways.

Often, the representatives on both sides of such transactions even have a wink-wink nod-nod deal going which is different from what the contract materially represents.

Importantly, these contracts virtually always avoid talking about mechanisms for tracking such usage, auditing such usage, and even any remedies for violations (beyond discontinuing the service access - and then only if it's egregious).

You'd be amazed how much in the telecom world is handshake and contractual with no technological enforcement and often neither side of these agreements are incentivized to enforce the terms laid out.

The parts of these agreements that are solid is how transactions, events, etc are measured and what these cost and who pays and how. Shocking, that.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#354

Post by hanspeter »

trendia wrote: post #288
fixermark wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they? The vast quantity of users find it incredibly useful and have no reason to be concerned about governments or third parties being able to determine their geographic location, because governments or third parties don't generally care.

Cambridge Analytica did far more with far less.

Did they? They're sales pitch claimed they could but what we've heard of actual methods and impact didn't appear more effective than regular FB ads.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#355

Post by gm-conspiracy »

codedokode wrote: post #240
Daycrawler wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning things works relatively well for people because they fear having trouble with law and justice. Doesn't work that well for corporations whose law department is just like any other department. In this case you must assume that if it's technically possible then it's done.

This argument can be used against any law, like antitrust law. Having a law department doesn't give you a free pass to break laws.

No, but when there are only civil penalties at risk, it becomes a business decision, not a moral one.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#356

Post by OrganicMSG »

fixermark wrote: post #262
Mononokay wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel guilt over creating them?

Should they? The vast quantity of users find it incredibly useful and have no reason to be concerned about governments or third parties being able to determine their geographic location, because governments or third parties don't generally care.

Mass surveillance is not really for investigating individuals.

The game being played is not '1984', it is 'Foundation'.

It is for steering entire societies, and this works far better on the boring people who think they have nothing to hide as they are the easiest to model

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#357

Post by OrganicMSG »

fixermark wrote: post #293
drb91 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source for this claim?

The general public and repeatedly-reported-upon understanding of how data collection can be leveraged to find unexpected insights not obvious from the data, coupled with the Snowden leaks, coupled with the ever-increasing user count for cellphones, Facebook, Twitter, and the Internet in general. If people were deeply individually concerned about the risks vs. rewards of these technologies, they'd stop using them. Tha…

> "If people were deeply individually concerned about the risks vs. rewards of these technologies, they'd stop using them."

Why do you think that? It clearly doesn't apply to stuff like oil, for instance.

I could give up my phone, but I would be in deep shit if I did it tomorrow. It would take a lot of arrangement to do so and it would piss off my family and lose me work.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#358

Post by lallysingh »

88e282102ae2e5b wrote: post #311
heurist wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the space as well. I've tried telling my congressmen but they ignore me. I'm waiting for the backlash, especially will all the recent privacy issues. It hasn't happened yet and the problem is so large that I honestly doubt whether the public will ever truly grasp what the scope. The advice I always give when this topic comes up us to be very careful with what you install on your phone. The least expensive mobi…

Are you able to send them a copy of their individual location data, or the location data of their staffers/friends/family? That might make for a potent wake up call. Though, you'd want to run that by an attorney first.

Screw that. Put together a consumer stalking website, sell the data directly. Advertise, make tons of money, and let the outrage from that bring light to the entire industry.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#359

Post by brewdad »

emodendroket wrote: post #305
fixermark wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hopefully there will be a way to opt out Don't use a cellphone. See also: the FBI can't wiretap your phone lines if you never use a telephone.

Live in a cabin in the woods and never have contact with anyone. Now your surveillance worries are solved.

We have satellites to monitor those people.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#360

Post by hanspeter »

metalliqaz wrote: post #280
dhimes wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would airplane mode work?

Airplane mode would work, yes. But it only works against the cell provider. The on-phone GPS can still work and sync the data later.

I would imagine the airplane mode deactivates GPS signal recipience?
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