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Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

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Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#351

Post by pbhjpbhj »

DanBC wrote: post #58
_m8fo wrote: post #46

So we've tried: - Real identities (Facebook comments) - Voting and self moderation (Reddit, HN, etc.) - Strong moderation (Reddit, HN) They all result in toxic comments, trolling, an echo chamber,or worse, a complete lack of participation. There's no real solution to this problem. However, if you create consequences or a cost to commenting you'd eliminate toxic comments and trolling at the cost of less participation…

Reddit does not have strong moderation. Some subreddits do have strong moderation; some subreddits think they have strong moderation but they have fucking idiot mods who call down trolls; and there are some subreddits that have permissive moderation and those subreddits leak. > However if you create consequences or a cost to commenting you'd eliminate toxic comments and trolling. You genuinely don't. There are forums…

It closes subreddits at the owners whim, that seems strong. It doesn't need to be always exercising that power to have demonstrated that it has and uses that power.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#352

Post by thomastjeffery »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #297
wufufufu wrote: post #260

You are making the problem seem worse than it actually is. Account age and inability to delete comments make an anonymous reputation pretty realistic on HN at least. Just in this thread we see examples of toxic comments being downvoted into invisibility (oblivion). Or is the problem that /r/the_donald exists? Just don't go there if you don't like it. And don't go to /r/trees if you don't like marijuana.

The problem is that reddit is one site. You can live in other "neighborhoods" on reddit that are not /r/the_donald, but you are still forced to live in the same city. That means people from there will show up in all of the other sub-reddits, voting and commenting away and twisting every single part of the site to be what they want. It's exhausting to put up with, and if you don't notice it then count yourself lucky.…

> It's exhausting to put up with

It would be more exhausting to put up with a system of censorship.

There will always be people around you that say or do things that you do not appreciate. Getting offended at them is something you do to them, not the other way around.

The more we act like people have power over us, the more power we give them.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#353

Post by alsetmusic »

cookiecaper wrote: post #294
bllguo wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to distinguish fact from fiction is not a skill that is near universal, and it should be. Seems like a straw man to attack "thought policing" and "indoctrination." We're talking about critical thinking and logical reasoning.

This argument is completely disingenuous. Your average person is capable of critical thinking and logical reasoning -- those who aren't are either wards under the care of another person. Normal people just think logically and critically in reference to local optima, and that's not something that we can or should try to program out of them. That quality is also known as adaptability and it's crucial to successful surv…

> All we can do is understand that our own perspective is not the default or de-facto correct one, and that other people are entitled to their own assumptions and unfalsifiable opinions just as we are. They're entitled to their own credibility heuristics and decisions about who is worth trusting. People are free to make their own decisions and conclusions, whether we agree with them or not.

For opinions, perhaps. There are also people who reject facts. I don’t consider rejection of evolution or young-earth views as legitimate. Thus, those who cling to these views are empirically wrong.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#354

Post by pbhjpbhj »

gowld wrote: post #284
digitalantfarm wrote: post #25

Reddit used to be a place where you could post links to anything on the internet (kind of like this place) and comment on it (without signing up with your email). Now it's place more like Facebook with algorithms based on your personal taste, geolocation, forced email, shadow banning, banning of politically incorrect subreddits, endless political posts and "Futurology" and "Uplifting" news articles. Free speech on re…

Reddit has a common frontpage (two, actually: /popular and /all) and user-customizable list of subreddits. > algorithms based on your personal taste, only for recommending subs to try > geolocation only for recommending subs to try > forced email no it does not > shadow banning extremely rare, and per-sub, not reddit-wide > banning of politically incorrect subreddits extremely rare; most of why Reddit is publicly des…

How do you know the latter are rare, as they're not publicly disclosed. You only find out the former potentially if you're the a moderator, or perhaps the person banned. The banning of subs you find out if you're in the sub, or watch every sub to check for bans. Or is there a banlist from reddit I don't know about?

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#355

Post by thaumasiotes »

branchless wrote: post #282
thaumasiotes wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what I know or believe I know about feudalism. It's almost entirely from the book https://www.amazon.com/Pre-Industrial-Societies-Anatomy-Pre-... , which while excellent does not deal with feudalism in any depth. - European feudalism was an unusual system in that the government had no taxing power. The lord who owned land held the taxing power ("feudal dues") over that land, and the king funded himself by coll…

How are devolved local states equivalent to private landlords? States capture land value via land tax and socialise this. Private landlords capture it and keep it. Night and day.

Are you referring to a feudal lord as a "private landlord" or a "devolved local state"? Both would be more or less fully appropriate.

"Devolved local state" is slightly more accurate than "private landlord", because unlike a landlord in a more commercialized society, a feudal lord was not legally able to sell the land he owned. He was legally able to govern it.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#356

Post by ecommerceguy »

Not one word about the HUGE Antifa presence or doxing by left wing conspirators and agitators. This is exactly why I don't read the New Yorker.

I would consider reading it if they gave light to both sides of this issue. But they don't. This is not journalism.

Edit: u/spez was caught editing user comments on certain subs he publicly disagrees with. How he's still CEO is beyond me. At least he admits he's a troll.

Edit 2 - Downvotes all you want, all I'm saying is FACTS. Here's more FACTS: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/z4444w/how-reddit...

Reddit culture starts at the top and this is Steve Hoffman. He should resign. He's completely in over his head.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#357

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

gricardo99 wrote: post #137
cavisne wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think nextdoor does this model and it’s still notorious for trolling/internet fights.

I’m amazed at how much trolling there is on Nextdoor. It’s not hate speech level, and most posts seem pretty cordial but considering the community venue aspect I’m just floored at how reflexively shitty people can be the minute there’s a divergence of opinions.

My Nextdoor community gets a lot of hate speech. They have filters that catch the words you know, but they don't have a way to stop the ideas.

My neighborhood is 50%+ non English Speaking Chinese. There are posts almost everyday that say things like..

"Some people in this neighborhood need to OPEN THEIR EYES and stop hitting the gate with their cars. I'll post this in the appropriate languages so everyone and the community can appreciate the significance of my message. Ching-Chang Chow... Bang Bong, Bing bong bing."

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#358

Post by pbhjpbhj »

yammajr wrote: post #123
DanBC wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no forced email for Reddit accounts. New accounts are midly painful with some delays in posting built in.

I made a new account about a week or so ago. Their new user form looks very much like you need an email to create an account, but you can just press continue without adding one, despite there being no indication of that. If I hadn't already known I didn't need an email, I would have either given them one or left the site and not returned, depending on how I felt giving them my email address.

As they request it they can probably claim that those not giving it are not authorised under the CMA/CFAA or appropriate act in whatever jurisdiction. Would be interesting to see that tested.

Just because I have an honesty box for payments doesn't mean you're not obligated to pay for whatever goods/services.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#359

Post by acdha »

_m8fo wrote: post #46

So we've tried: - Real identities (Facebook comments) - Voting and self moderation (Reddit, HN, etc.) - Strong moderation (Reddit, HN) They all result in toxic comments, trolling, an echo chamber,or worse, a complete lack of participation. There's no real solution to this problem. However, if you create consequences or a cost to commenting you'd eliminate toxic comments and trolling at the cost of less participation…

Metafilter set the gold standard: accounts require a one-time payment to discourage sock puppets and they have full-time moderators who’ll jump in before behavior gets out of control and tell people to tone it down.

I don’t know an easy way to scale that model.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#360

Post by thomastjeffery »

ssully wrote: post #56
ScipioAfricanus wrote: post #8

It's not that the "trolls are winning", it's that people are allowing the trolls to bother them. Trolls have always existed; it's our heightened sensitivity and inability to just shrug them off or laugh in the face of their obscenity that's letting them "win".

Yeah this is bullshit. Trolls have always existed, but shrugging them off was never a solution. In message boards I used to frequent trolls were suspended without question and banned for repeat offenses. Now when trolls get banned there is an out cry from the troll and those in line with them about censorship and violation of their free speech. The problem is trolls are given too much room to play and speak.

> The problem is trolls are given too much room to play and speak.

That's the problem with your mindset right there.

We are talking about people. To decide that other people cannot say things you do not like to hear is to deny them their liberty. That clearly worse than "trolling".

Getting offended by a person's words or actions is not them doing something to you, it's you doing something to them - or rather, to yourself.

So if you can't - or shouldn't - compel other people to think and act in a certain manner, what do you do?

The answer is simple: show them the door.

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